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| Sheffield 1983-1984 12/04/2010 at 13:19 #8426 | |
58050
2650 posts |
The platforming of DMU's at Sheffield was done by NoisyNoel & even he has had to do some additional moves to cater for the long lay overs of some class 2 services. The section 'YE' 1983-1984 Working Timetable which is what I worked from has set train ID's for all class 2 services in & out of Sheffield. The same can be said for the 1981-1982 WTT Section 'YE' also. Now if this causes alot of issues, one other suggestion would be to make up separate train ID's for the rest of the day. However in reality this wouldn't be accurate. I'm aware of some rules that will need adding for locos & trains in & around Tinsley yard & TMD. This is why I say this is a work in progress. The other change will be MGR services at Barrow Hill. At present all MGR services to & from Didcot PS come in & out of Barrow Hill RS. I am keen to alter these whereby an inwards empty train will stand on 'The Staveley Goods', loco off to shed for re-fuelling & a fresh loco off BH DD & attach onto the front of the train before going forward down the seymour Goods branch for loading. Also the loaded train to stand on Recep No.1, No.2, or No.3 prior to departing to Didcot PS. But I need to get through the whole timetable first. I will be going through the list of issues aith Noel at the end of the week & we shall attempt to work through them. Thanks for all your comments.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 12/04/2010 at 14:55 #8432 | |
spfish
56 posts |
Forest Pines said:Say you have two trains in a timetable which share the same first four characters of the ID: 1A01-A and 1A01-B, for example. If 1A01-A is present in the sim, 1A01-B is not present, and you interpose "1A01-B" into a describer berth, clicking on the berth will show you 1A01-A's timetable, not 1A01-B's. You are correct Forest Pines, and it does happen on most if not all simulations. It is quite workable when, for example, performing a run round with a loco and (eg) 6M01-A becomes 6M01-B. The difficulty with Sheffield is that there are no fewer than 14 trains with a 2D71 headcode, 14 with 2J71, 22 of 2L54 and a staggering 38 trains with headcode 2J54. Clearly there will allways be duplicated and multiple headcoded trains throughout the day, and this is where the confusion becomes greatest. Not taken this any further yet, but will keep you posted. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 12/04/2010 at 16:59 #8437 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
I've got to 1900 so far with a later revison of the TT from Pascal, who is working on the glitches found so far. With a 5+ TD, the sim will match only the first 4 to in-sim trains, once the relevant train appears/is created it will sort things out OK. The real probelm is with say 5J54 and 5J54-A in sim at the same time. If you have -A and -B you can enter the correct TD OK. Sometimes use a sticky to view the TT works better. I believe that in mplay client TD queries only use the 4 letter TD, hence difficulties when more than 1 similar TD present at once, although this has been addressed in later versions (?). I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 12/04/2010 at 23:09 #8455 | |
Meld
1098 posts |
58050 said:One question to anyone out there who reads this. I suspect at this time most DMUs serving Sheffield station were fuelled & maintained at Darnal TMD. The section YE for 1983-1984 doesn't show any 5XXX from Darnall - Sheffield - Darnall, only on Saturday Only (SO) services. I've timetabled the DMUs & some locos on & off Sheffield HS. I would imagine in reality both instalations were used at this time. Does anyone know for definate as I'm not certain when Darnall TMD closed? As a guess I would have said mid to late 1980s.Now memory may be playing tricks on me here Darnall C&W did close in '87 however when HSTs took over MML services all the evening ECS LHCS moves between Sheffield and Darnall ceased - I remember going to Kettlebridge Rd as a youth to see what worked the Master Cutler that day from St Pancras these services used to come over the connection from Woodburn Jcn over the flyover which isn't represented in the sim and was in place in the early 80's, as was Darnall West Jcn - Attercliffe Jcn - DMU's certainly came into Darnall at this time for cleaning as well. The SO workings were more than likely ECS from Nunnery that had been stabled all week and needed a check over before going out for the day on a Saturday Now IIRC in 83/4 this didnt happen and I am pretty sure that the DMU's went to the lower servicing shed at Tinsley for fuel etc. running either via Brightside or Woodburn Jcn - one other point to make is that a lot of the TMD - Yard light moves would have been from the servicing shed in the yard as opposed to the main shed up the bank, a little further searching has revealed that in '83 Darnall was used as an overspill for DMU & coaches that had blue asbestos as Tinsleys Secondary yard was full A couple of diagrams for Darnall West box can be found here http://www.signalboxes.com/darnall-signalbox.php along with links to various other screen 6 boxes ;) I'll pick the brains of a friend that worked Orgreave and Sheffield about this later in the week Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 14/04/2010 at 06:44 #8484 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
On writing the 1986 timetable, I quickly discovered that Swinton is a compulsary timing point for modern-era routing reasons - as is Thrybergh Junction on the GCR line. In real life, all trains passing through the site of Swinton in 1986 had a timing point at Dearne Junction, about a mile or so up the line, so a timing point at Swinton isn't actually *too* unrealistic. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 14/04/2010 at 09:54 #8489 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
This is a great timetable the work going into its creation is outstanding - this is no criticism of the hard work done in creating it The TD bug made for an interesting session last night, was on view 5 and noticed the duplicates going down the branch to Seymour Jcn 0/6T54 and 0/6T45 would be an either or service as it stands, one departs BH RS NTH at 0559 the other 0600 - easily solved by making 6/7T45 run to Oxcroft and adjusting 10 mins later, to cover this 7T56 needs to run 10 mins earlier from Seymour ( this was an exchange sidings so loading wasn't an issue) Stabling of these two trains would be in the RCL1/2/3 ready for forwarding south and not go back into BH RS NTH, in fact, it was standard practice for all loaded trains off the branch to do this. Theres an identical situation at Silverwood (which was never one of the busiest Collieries) with 6T09/6T05/6T07-6 all arrive on screen from Hexthorpe within 15 minutes of each other I would suggest making T09 MSX - T05 SO & T07-6 MO A lot of coal workings in the area would be done on a weekly STN notice to meet rise/fall in demand so there can be a lot more/less running. Missing Regular Workings MO there would be a couple of 0J08 light engine moves between Tinsley TMD and Barrow Hill Shed with corresponding 0J03 on Fridays - these were planned maintainance moves and would be upto 5 locos coupled, a similar situation with LE moves to Shirebrook Shed as well 0J03 being the code again for SB - TI (0D08?? the other way - honestly can't remember the code) Unfortunately because of the way the '80s screens are set the cripples trip to Darnall (sometimes 2 a day tripped by a pair of 20s) cannot be accurately recreated as these were accessed by the missing West Curve and propelling from Darnall station into the east end of the shed complex, which also precludes the running of the Orgreave - Scunthopre Coke trains off the GC Broughton Lane yard missing along with the BOC terminal so 6E41/6M59C running to Tinsley Yard is an acceptable substitute however this train was hauled by a 25/40 combo 
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 17/04/2010 at 10:47 #8595 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
I take on board everybodies comments. There is a need to rectify one issue at a time. Now AndyG has kindly sent me a revised version of the 1983-1984 timetable whereby most of the 'Warnings/Error' have been eliminated. Hopefully this weekend & during the course of the week I will get through this new version. I have had to take a weeks rest from the PC whilst undergoing 'Physio' on my back & legs after suffering a sever back pain from last November. So I am taking it a bit easier at the moment. If anyone is interrested in going through this revised version of Sheffield 1983-1984 let me know on this forum during the course of the weekend along with their e-mail, I will e-mail this version to them. The first thing I want to correct is all the missing 'Rules' & add them in so we can stop the conflicts between Tinsley TMD & Tinsley Yard. So if any need removing or addidng please list them on this forum & I will sort them out. A coupe of things to point out to Meld. Firstly thanks for your comments on this timetable. ( there is a 1981-1982 one in process of being done as well. Yes I know about the Ditton BOC tanks, however it didn't always run with a Cl.25 piloting. Nice foto of it going through Grindleford on 'The Chesterfield Observors' website, no Cl.25 only Cl.40. I am also aware of the DMU fuelling situation as I have discussed this at length wuth Forest Pines & some fottplate staff know who worked at Worksop & Barrow Hill. I also agree most of the servicing & fuelling of locos would have been done at the servicing shed, but on the 1980's era it doesn't appear & in doing this timetable I wanted to send trains to all of the locations within the 1980's era Sheffield sim. As Tinsley TMD is shown, so I have used this instead. There has also been some alterations to the Tinsley yard trip wotrkings as not all the destinations served b the Tinsley yard trips are on the 1980's era Sheffield Sim. One thing is missing out of the timetable & that is all the LD movements between Tinsley TMD & where-ever, this will probably be the last things I will do as I want to speak to a few more drivers I know from my railway career who can give me the information I need. The issue at Barrow Hill RS I am aware of. It is my intenton once we have scaled down the number of issues is to re-timetable the Didcot MGRs so the empty set comes in on the @UP/DON Staveley Goods', loco detaches & goes to BH DD before a fresh loco comes of BH DD & attaches to the front of the empty set & then goes forward down the Seymour branch to Markham Colliery. Also I want to stable the loaded trains RCL 1, 2 & 3. However when we have tried this in the past, even with a thru line stop ticked in the box, the trains always wanted to depart after standing there a few minutes instead of their boked standing time. Once again I'll apologize to everyone for releasing this timetable early & causing alot of grief whilst game playing. However I'm grateful for all your comments.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 17/04/2010 at 11:17 #8596 | |
moonraker
353 posts |
I'll give you a hand Pascal. E-mail - paul dot farwell1 at ntlworld dot com
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 17/04/2010 at 12:28 #8597 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
Pascal the TT is good, regardless, I haven't worked Vw6 yet so couldn't comment on the Tinsley Yard - TMD conflicts. The eastern access that is used in the sim to the TMD didnt see that much use in the 80's and was a switch back up/down the bank, following a couple of runaways that stabled on the A630 With regards to the DMU between Sheffield and the servicing shed I've added a couple of workings from Sheffield HS and using Tinsley Yard West as the terminating point (to simulate the servicing shed) at 0020 and 0135 returning 90 minutes later out via Brightside back via Woodburn Jcn . In reality these trains weren't timetabled and ran 3 times a night at approximately 2 hourly intervals and were sent when they were ready and ran directly from the platforms as opposed to the HS, with no set routing between Nunnery Mainline Jcn & Shepcote Lane Jcn ( I used HS to save a load of shunting moves - lol) As you say the limitaions of the 80s layout do present problems for various other workings, the main ones being the missing Darnall West Curve, Nunnery CS and the access to Darnall shed via the flyover from Woodburn Jcn and the east End Only noticed after reading the t/t that there are no Huddersfield services, now I can't remember if they had already started running via Barnsley or were still running up through Deepcar with a reveersal at Woodburn Jcn each way Email is yorkslad61athotmaildotcodotuk Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 17/04/2010 at 15:28 #8601 | |
flymo
135 posts |
58050 said:Once again I'll apologize to everyone for releasing this timetable early & causing alot of grief whilst game playing. However I'm grateful for all your comments.Never a reason to apologize bud, we all learn a little every time we open the (signal) box. I for one am very grateful for all the work that went into the timetable, In fact, look at it this way, the more people that test the timetable, the easier it will be to update any small errors that may occur. The hard part is getting all the data together and you have done all that. So take 5, relax and don't worry, all your hard work is keeping us all sane. Safe F Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 17/04/2010 at 22:31 #8604 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
Pascal a few minor corrections : 8T30-A DES='0447 SX Darnall C&W - Tinsley Yard (Tinsley T.35 Trip) - needs editing to 8T35-A 9T96-A DES='T.96 MTThO Barrow Hill Trip (Cl.08) - no outward working Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 18/04/2010 at 11:08 #8609 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Thanks for the comment Flymo. However when I release a timetable lke everyone else who does them, one hopes to have as few outstanding errors as possible. But it is a good learning curve when sorting issues out. Meld, thanks for the info. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 08:21 #8626 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
Right Pascal I've started going through v2 1M10 is showing as 241m (F2) when in Platform running though to P1B it blocks the HS not allowing 5S00 out - edited back to 208m and alls fine - Train type in v2 is ; F86528EE DES='Cl.45/1 +11 coaches'; MXS=90; LEN=241; BRK=Med; PWR=Diesel. In v1 this was, and is missing from v2 8F764BA8 DES='1M10 Cl.45/1+11 coaches'; MXS=90; LEN=208; BRK=Med; PWR=Diesel. Postals V50 & E38 use Platform 1 (customary thing to save the lazy posties using the lifts  ) - all shunts from HS being done via S102 while the postals were in6T07-B & 7T07-B would this be an out and back Doncaster crew trip ?? 7T07 departs before 6T07 arrives either a rule or retime 7T07 as theres no corresponding LE moves 4E05 shunts fine - no 4E05-1 for onward working however I succesfully avoided the stand off with 1E66 by altering 0E05 to use Sheffield 143 rev (Centre Siding) Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 08:56 #8628 | |
postal
5190 posts |
Pascal/Meld I've got an Excel file set up that takes the .csv outputs created from the Tools menu of the F4 TT screen and compares one TT with another to check that the train types are consistent one TT to another and then that the TDs which are common to both TTs have the same train type. It was originally set up to compare TTs on different sims which were designed to chain together, but it would enable you to compare v1 and v2 of a TT to pick up any unintended changes. Drop me a PM if you want a copy and I'll send it back to you. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 13:57 #8632 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
58050 said:However when we have tried this in the past, even with a thru line stop ticked in the box, the trains always wanted to depart after standing there a few minutes instead of their boked standing time. Once again I'll apologize to everyone for releasing this timetable early & causing alot of grief whilst game playing. However I'm grateful for all your comments. I think this is a standard sim thing - this always happens in other timetables with freights that have a long stopover in those lines. I guess the only way around it is with "must not depart until xx after arrives", and/or must not depart before rules. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 15:14 #8634 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
I think you have hit the nil on the head GoochyB. That was what I was going to do when I get round to sorting out the MGR services at Barrow Hill. Incidentally just started V2.0 thanks to AndyG. Yes Meld I had the same problem with 1M10. I did an 'F4' & looked in Train Types & altered it back to 208m. All the loco, coach/van lengths i get from website 'The Railway Centre'. The wagon lengths I get from my various @Working Manuals of Rail Staff' which has them in. Additional info is taken from various Sectional Appendixes I own. The thing is in almost all timetales train lengths seem to vary quite considerably. I calculate mine from Official BR publications. Meld regarding missing trains, once I have worked my way through V2.0, I will then add or alter any rules that need doing & then add what trains seem to be missing. So if anyone knows of any other trains that definately need to be added, please post as much info about it as you can on forum. I know Meld has informed me of a few. By the way Meld, why am I responsible for your baldness. Are you getting frustrated at the number of issues that need sorting out?
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 15:53 #8635 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Postal, I am interested in your Excel file. Can you bear with me for a bit until I have gone through V2.0 of the timetable. Once I have done that I will contact you & you can then send me it.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 16:22 #8636 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
58050 The timetables running fine, just picking up on things as they happen, it took 4 hours to play the first 2 1/2 sim time - I appreciate the mountain of info that is required for all the various parts ( I just wish I hadn't let all my stuff go in the 90's) As for the baldness its been going now for years mate just looking for an excuse still LOL. BTW joining procedure for Leeds/Newc - Poole was done by an 08 that was normally stabled in US2 for most of the day - path being US2 - S143rev - P5 - S143rev - P6 - S143rev - US2 - the train engine off the Leeds would then run light to stable behind S92 next working being the Newcastle leg of the Nortbound Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 16:38 #8637 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
OK good to know. I'll look at this once I have ot through V2.0, currently at 0140, 4E05 just arrived.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 19/04/2010 at 17:03 #8638 | |
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Meld
1098 posts |
Yeah first shunt for 4E05 has to be done as t/t but can do S143rev for 0E05 and not delay 1E66 - currently at 0240 E62 just come on and BH RS filling up The 5J54M shunt can be eliminated by bringing the unit round into P1B then reversing back onto the vans for Barnsley AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH can't get 3E07 to join 0E07 grrrrr Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!! Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 20/04/2010 at 14:40 #8669 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
I tend to hold 0E05 & run 1E66 first. Class 1 over light engine. 3E07 should work. Shows J:0E07 then DR: 5E07 & 0E07 shows J:3E07. Will have to try it myself. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 20/04/2010 at 17:18 #8679 | |
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moonraker
353 posts |
Pascal. 4E05-1 has an incorrect derparture time from Sheffield. The TT shows it as 02.10 but it looks like it should be 03.17.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 21/04/2010 at 17:33 #8702 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Right for those who are working your way through V2.3 of Sheffield 83-84, there are a couple of things that need adding or altering first. I wil list them below: 1. First 2 rules need adding. One for 0L01R2 & one for 0M27R2 at Woodhouse Jn Sdgs. 2. In 'Train Types' you need to change the length of 3E07 from 223m to 208m. 3. Times missing for 7E34, please add your own. Will advise as I progress through V2.3, or if anyone else finds anything missing or needs altering please post on forum. Log in to reply |
| Sheffield 1983-1984 21/04/2010 at 17:44 #8705 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
2J52 2355 SX ECS Barnsley - Sheffield needs change of head code from 2J52 to 5J52 as it is ECS.
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| Sheffield 1983-1984 21/04/2010 at 18:05 #8706 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Change 1V54 from P6 to P8.
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