Train Describers disappearing

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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 15:03 #1925
timxjr1300
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8 posts 		I've been playing with Westbury for some time and have upped the ante and moved to Bristol V2.02 scrolly which is entertaining, thankfully I have two screens which helps!
Anyway, I have searched the forum but can't find anything about train describers disappearing. They just go and are quite often not even replaced with 'xxxx'.

Is there a bug here?
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 15:03 #12075
timxjr1300
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8 posts 		I've been playing with Westbury for some time and have upped the ante and moved to Bristol V2.02 scrolly which is entertaining, thankfully I have two screens which helps!
Anyway, I have searched the forum but can't find anything about train describers disappearing. They just go and are quite often not even replaced with 'xxxx'.

Is there a bug here?
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 15:27 #12076
GeoffM
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6288 posts 		Can you give a bit more detail as to where the train descriptions are disappearing from? It's not something I've heard of and Bristol has been out for quite some time now.
SimSig Boss
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 15:52 #12077
AndyG
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1835 posts 		Is it when routing trains via shunt signals?
Normally, trains in passenger service should be routed via main aspect signals only.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 19:10 #12081
timxjr1300
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8 posts 		In the 1985 timetable for Bristol, train 3B131 which is a shunter becomes ready to leave Pylle Hill (East) to go to temple m platform 5. It never gets a describer even when parked at platform 5 which means you have to keep finding the train and looking at its timetable to work out what to do with it.

5E161 as above but platform 3, 5E162 at platform 1
5V271 W-S-M up sidings. This is worse because at W-S-M platform 2 you need to change the describer to 5V722 and work out where to send it. Only when it starts to move do you get "xxxx"

Really that is almost as far as I got. I don't know if I am doing anything wrong
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 19:11 #12082
timxjr1300
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8 posts 		AndyG said:
Normally, trains in passenger service should be routed via main aspect signals only.

Yes, but to get them out of sidings you have to use shunt signals unless I am doing something wrong
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 19:31 #12083
Noisynoel
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989 posts 		Shunt signals do not normally have berths associated with them, hence the train appears later as xxxx. What move exactly are you trying to do when you have problems?
Noisynoel
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Train Describers disappearing 21/10/2010 at 19:59 #12084
postal
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5195 posts
Online 		Tim

On a lot of sims trains enter the sim from sidings or depots without the TD showing on the screen. It is up to you as signaller to interpose the TD at the first suitable berth. This mirrors what happens on many panels in the real world.

So for example with 5B131 / 3B131 you have to put the TD in manually. You can't put it in at Pylle Hill signal 533 because there is no berth associated with the signal to accept the TD. You have to set the route from 533 to AC1 (The blue X between P3 and P4) then to signal 39 and then interpose the TD at one of those latter 2 locations. You can interpose by pressing key "i" on the keyboard, typing in the TD then clicking on the signal where you wish to insert the TD, clicking on the TD Interpose button on the main Menu window or right-clicking on the signal (if the F3 option for right-click cancelling route is disabled) and selecting Interpose TD. If you don't enter a TD, then the logic which steps the TD to the next berth enters "****".

JG
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Train Describers disappearing 26/10/2010 at 16:20 #12160
timxjr1300
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8 posts 		AHA, that seems to work then.

I have a second problem with 5E161 which is it is stuck on its way to platform one "Waiting for authority to move"

How do I give it authority?
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Train Describers disappearing 26/10/2010 at 16:34 #12161
Peter Bennet
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5363 posts 		He should phone in and ask- the reply is an option in the list.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Train Describers disappearing 04/11/2010 at 14:22 #12374
Charlytos
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268 posts 		timxjr 1300, you have put 2 questions, receiving several answer from other players. I put my answer with my short English words:

1) ID dissappears or doesn't apperar when train enters on simulation. Any simulations when train enters on simulation from siding, example Trent, hasn't ID put, on other sims if appears put their ID. I make next, when flashs call to accept entrance train, copy the ID of that train and past it on any next signal nearly to entrance point.
And other train, if train has its ID and runs from main to main signals shall shall show its ID just. But if shows its ID and by personal mistake, select route from main to shunt signals, after passed shunt signals ID is lost and player must to put it manually of new.

2) Message waiting to move train. If track is selected and appears that message, flashing the call icon. Open that call, A key, down screen has detail, wait 2, 5 or 15 minutes, shall appear detail Authorization move train or equivalent words, use it and train shall start to run of new.
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Train Describers disappearing 05/11/2010 at 09:38 #12378
kbarber
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1712 posts 		Of course you are at liberty, especially with shunt moves, not to use the describers at all. IIRC large panel boxes would never bother setting up, say 0Z00 just for a loco following a departing train out of a platform & heading for the nearest stabling siding, unless there was a reason to do slo (likelihood it might be held for a period and thus get forgotten).

Edit to say that doesn't apply, of course, where the movement needs to run for some distance (there may be specific rules nowadays to do with such systems as TRUST). And describers must always be used when trains pass from one signalbox control area to another.
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Train Describers disappearing 06/11/2010 at 18:58 #12390
DazrahT
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47 posts 		I did read somewhere (think it was 'Rules of the Route' on NR website) that any train/loco travelling a distance more than 3 miles must have a schedule set up in TSDB/Trust.

On another note
0S00 is a common headcode shown as an instruction in many 'Special Box Instructions' for use as a shunt headcode when a train approaches another area of control, but does not enter that area. I suspect the reason for this is it is better to have then shunt described; as **** and tracks showing occupied in the next box could be misinterpreted as a track circuit failure, when really it is a loco/train doing a shunt.
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Train Describers disappearing 07/11/2010 at 09:49 #12392
kbarber
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1712 posts 		DazrahT said:
I did read somewhere (think it was 'Rules of the Route' on NR website) that any train/loco travelling a distance more than 3 miles must have a schedule set up in TSDB/Trust.

Suspected as much. Don't know how long it's been like that but it probably shows how long since I had anything to do with signalling (officially that is). Having said which, I suspect most boxes with a movement going that far probably would set up a description, it's mainly shunting around in a station or yard area I had in mind, sort of thing that would happen a fair bit at places like Euston as bankers (incoming engines that had followed their trains to the platform end) were shunted out to the various holding sidings or, at Willesden, when Brent South End wanted a long shunt.

DazrahT said:
On another note
0S00 is a common headcode shown as an instruction in many 'Special Box Instructions' for use as a shunt headcode when a train approaches another area of control, but does not enter that area. I suspect the reason for this is it is better to have then shunt described; as **** and tracks showing occupied in the next box could be misinterpreted as a track circuit failure, when really it is a loco/train doing a shunt.

Indeed; (used to be) used at Camden Road for shunts towards Primrose Hill (Euston PSB). Mind you, that was in the days of the DMU service from Camden Road to North Woolwich. (See? Told you I was a dinosaur.)
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Train Describers disappearing 07/11/2010 at 13:37 #12393
Adrian the Rock
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111 posts 		kbarber said:
...Indeed; (used to be) used at Camden Road for shunts towards Primrose Hill (Euston PSB). Mind you, that was in the days of the DMU service from Camden Road to North Woolwich. (See? Told you I was a dinosaur.)

I can rememer when the (DC) trains from Camden Road ran to Broad St.
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Train Describers disappearing 07/11/2010 at 13:51 #12394
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		DazrahT said:
I did read somewhere (think it was 'Rules of the Route' on NR website) that any train/loco travelling a distance more than 3 miles must have a schedule set up in TSDB/Trust.
Had a look through ROTP and couldn't find that myself, but I'm certainly not saying you've got it wrong. In-fact I probably didn't look hard enough and will no doubt find it after posting this reply.

One thing I did find is "All shunts to be timed for ARS purposes", which was in relation to the Sunderland area. I assume that would also apply to any other ARS area too...?
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Train Describers disappearing 08/11/2010 at 09:24 #12401
kbarber
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1712 posts 		Adrian the Rock said:
kbarber said:
...Indeed; (used to be) used at Camden Road for shunts towards Primrose Hill (Euston PSB). Mind you, that was in the days of the DMU service from Camden Road to North Woolwich. (See? Told you I was a dinosaur.)

I can rememer when the (DC) trains from Camden Road ran to Broad St.

And I can recall a pleasant afternoon in Broad Street (formerly No. 2) box signalling them; Stevens frame with FPLs standing normal 'in', which confused me a bit.

Looks like we're going to be wanting a zimmer frame park at meets if we both get there
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Train Describers disappearing 08/11/2010 at 20:55 #12407
Jan
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892 posts 		UKTrainMan said:
Had a look through ROTP and couldn't find that myself, but I'm certainly not saying you've got it wrong. In-fact I probably didn't look hard enough and will no doubt find it after posting this reply.

Just had a look, it should be section 6.4 (or something similar) in the ROTPs for the individual regions.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Train Describers disappearing 08/11/2010 at 21:35 #12410
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		Jan said:
UKTrainMan said:
Had a look through ROTP and couldn't find that myself, but I'm certainly not saying you've got it wrong. In-fact I probably didn't look hard enough and will no doubt find it after posting this reply.

Just had a look, it should be section 6.4 (or something similar) in the ROTPs for the individual regions.
Ah, found it.

Quote:
Paths for light engine movements of greater than 2 miles must be fully timed and validated to the usual standards.

Interesting to note that it also said
Quote:
Train Operators should submit aspirations and formal bids for these movements in the same way as for other train movements.
At least I was right in saying

UKTrainMan said:
I probably didn't look hard enough and will no doubt find it after posting this reply.
:lol:
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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