Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing

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Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 19:42 #25999
kreader
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38 posts 		I am running Exeter. Approx 07.15 am report that level crossing at Silk Mill blocked by road vehicle. It is now 09.25 and the crossing is still obstructed. I have 8 trains on the Up line at a stand and 4 on the Down Line.
1. I presume that the crossing does come free eventually although it is difficult to imagine the road vehicle that would take over 2 hours to move.
2. Should I have allowed trains to pile up at the signals prior to the crossing or held them at Exeter St Davids and Taunton and maybe Tiverton.
3. When (or if) the crossing comes free do I give priority to the Class 1 trains or do I send them on in the time sequence? Platforms at Tauntron give me some flexiblilty.
Just interested to find out from the expert professional signallers on this forum.

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Last edited: 21/12/2011 at 19:55 by AndyG
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 19:43 #26000
derbybest
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274 posts 		1 replace signals
2 raise barriers
3 lower barriers
4 signal trains
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 19:55 #26001
ledgero2
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93 posts 		" said:
1 replace signals
2 raise barriers
3 lower barriers
4 signal trains
what he said!
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 20:01 #26002
delticfan
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476 posts 		" said:
I am running Exeter. Approx 07.15 am report that level crossing at Silk Mill blocked by road vehicle. It is now 09.25 and the crossing is still obstructed. I have 8 trains on the Up line at a stand and 4 on the Down Line.
1. I presume that the crossing does come free eventually although it is difficult to imagine the road vehicle that would take over 2 hours to move.
2. Should I have allowed trains to pile up at the signals prior to the crossing or held them at Exeter St Davids and Taunton and maybe Tiverton.
3. When (or if) the crossing comes free do I give priority to the Class 1 trains or do I send them on in the time sequence? Platforms at Tauntron give me some flexiblilt
Just interested to find out from the expert professional signallers on this forum.
Hi there, I've mentioned this problem of vehicles stuck on crossings, but never had it happen for as long as a couple of hours. I found that the steps suggested by derbybest worked within a couple of minutes. Also, apparently Silk Mill crossing has been taken out of use recently so it's possible to cancel the auto setting and leave it in the 'down' position, and you won't incur penalties. That's what I've found so far anyway. I'm early in the default t/t (04.55) and had it happen on Red Cow a couple of times.
Hope this helps.
Mal.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 20:15 #26005
Peter Bennet
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5362 posts 		If you don't lift the crossing it will remain blocked in perpetuity as there's no where for the vehicle to go!

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 21/12/2011 at 20:34 #26007
kreader
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38 posts 		Thanks for the advice. Now finished for tonight so will try solution suggested in the morning.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 08:03 #26617
maxand
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1637 posts 		I struck the same problem at Stoke Canon LC, and would like to add one more line to derbybest's helpful reply.

If trying to Raise the barriers fails, make sure that you haven't already set a route across the LC. If you have, Cancel the Route!

Only then will raising the barriers succeed.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 09:21 #26622
AndyG
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1835 posts 		" said:
I struck the same problem at Stoke Canon LC, and would like to add one more line to derbybest's helpful reply.
If trying to Raise the barriers fails, make sure that you haven't already set a route across the LC. If you have, Cancel the Route!
Only then will raising the barriers succeed.
Derbybest's item 1 already said that!

" said:
1 replace signals
2 raise barriers
3 lower barriers
4 signal trains
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 02/01/2012 at 09:22 by AndyG
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 11:03 #26629
kreader
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38 posts 		Thanks for all the replies. I quickly sorted out the problem after the advice on this site. I misunderstood the message thinking that a vehicle was broken down on the crossing, not that one one was stuck between the barriers. I am pretty thick really which is why I was not Derby's Best when i lived there.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 11:14 #26630
maxand
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1637 posts 		Quote:
Derbybest's item 1 already said that!
Not as I see it. derbybest wrote "1 replace signals". Here's a re-enactment of the problem I faced:



(Due to the random nature of this event, the pic isn't authentic. Next time I encounter it I'll try to post a real screenshot.)

A train was approaching the LC along the Up Main (from left to right). The barriers hadn't come down completely (LWR light was still flashing). I can't be sure whether the CLR light was steady, flashing or off (I think it was flashing, but clicking it did not clear the signal). I was getting the "vehicle blocking road" message, and after reading derbybest's answer, ignored step 1, seeing that the approach signal (45) did not need replacing - it was already replaced (red)! I tried step 2 - raising the barriers - but they refused to budge. About the only thing left to do was to cancel the route, though why this should affect raising the barriers is still beyond me. However, after doing this I was able to raise the barriers and everything proceeded smoothly from then on.

kreader:
Quote:
I am pretty thick really which is why I was not Derby's Best when i lived there.

LOL, don't sell yourself short. Just treat SimSig as a puzzle game simulator and you'll do fine.
Last edited: 02/01/2012 at 11:23 by maxand
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 11:23 #26634
Steamer
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3923 posts
Online 		'Replace signal' is a blanket term that covers cancelling routes, even if the signal hasn't cleared.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 11:26 #26635
maxand
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1637 posts 		Oh.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 21:18 #26682
clive
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2738 posts 		" said:
About the only thing left to do was to cancel the route, though why this should affect raising the barriers is still beyond me.
Because the route request is driving the crossing lower logic, which therefore overrides pressing the raise button.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 21:50 #26688
Hooverman
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306 posts 		All I can say is thank god for interlocking, although it doesn't stop the odd pedestrian or mobility scooter getting caught the wrong side after crossing clear is push!
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 02/01/2012 at 22:27 #26690
BoxBoyKit
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166 posts 		" said:
I am running Exeter. Approx 07.15 am report that level crossing at Silk Mill blocked by road vehicle. It is now 09.25 and the crossing is still obstructed. I have 8 trains on the Up line at a stand and 4 on the Down Line.
1. I presume that the crossing does come free eventually although it is difficult to imagine the road vehicle that would take over 2 hours to move.
2. Should I have allowed trains to pile up at the signals prior to the crossing or held them at Exeter St Davids and Taunton and maybe Tiverton.
3. When (or if) the crossing comes free do I give priority to the Class 1 trains or do I send them on in the time sequence? Platforms at Tauntron give me some flexiblilty.
Just interested to find out from the expert professional signallers on this forum.

{moved from Hosting to appropriate section-AG}
Thing to remember, is these sorts of level crossings are CCTV monitored or right outside the box. In reality on the panel there would be a CCTV monitor showing the crossing. When you start the lowering sequence, you would watch the monitor or out the window to observe that the barriers went down safely, and that the crossing was completely clear (even though an open level crossing isn't considered an obstruction or blocked line) before allowing a train to pass over it. As there is no CCTV, you get the message and simply do as suggested above, which is what would happen in real life.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 03/01/2012 at 13:11 #26718
maxand
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1637 posts 		Clive:
Quote:
Because the route request is driving the crossing lower logic, which therefore overrides pressing the raise button.

Thanks for replying. Do you mind my asking, does this also happen in real life, or is this only the way it works in SimSig? I'm intrigued because I haven't read anywhere else that setting routes is interlocked with level crossings in this way, only that approach signals can't clear unless the barriers are down. Not talking about automatic crossings here. I would have thought that it's irrelevant whether or not a route is set through a level crossing; the only thing that matters is the aspect of the approach signal. Cancelling a route just to be able to raise barriers still seems strange to me.

Also thanks to everyone else who responded and shed light on this subject.
Last edited: 03/01/2012 at 13:12 by maxand
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 03/01/2012 at 13:48 #26723
Steamer
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3923 posts
Online 		" said:
Do you mind my asking, does this also happen in real life, or is this only the way it works in SimSig?

I think it would work like this in real life as well, to add another layer of safety. Remember, it is a conflicing message being given to the interlocking: Route says lower, button says Raise. The safest course of action is always to lower.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 04/01/2012 at 12:57 #26797
clive
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2738 posts 		" said:
Clive:
Quote:
Because the route request is driving the crossing lower logic, which therefore overrides pressing the raise button.

Thanks for replying. Do you mind my asking, does this also happen in real life, or is this only the way it works in SimSig?
I believe it's a real-world requirement (perhaps so that a glitch on the "clear" button doesn't cause the signals to clear while the barriers are just starting to raise), but I was unable to find anything in the group standards in a quick search.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 05/01/2012 at 11:59 #26837
maxand
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1637 posts 		Thanks Clive for looking into it.
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Re: Exeter- Road Vehicle Blocking Silk Mill Crossing 05/01/2012 at 16:30 #26843
Firefly
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521 posts 		Quote:
I would have thought that it's irrelevant whether or not a route is set through a level crossing; the only thing that matters is the aspect of the approach signal.
It has to be based on more than just the aspect of the approach signal. Imagine a train coming towards the crossing at 90mph with green signals. If the only thing in the interlocking is the signal aspect you could replace the signal to danger and immediately raise the barriers.

Secondly if the train had passed the signal and it's reverted back to danger but the train had not yet reached the crossing once again you have a red aspect so could therefore raise you barriers.

This clearly wouldn't do!

The way that we guard against this eventuality is to interlock barriers with the route locking and the signal routes. (this is the same for points, ground frames and other movable infrastructure.)

For the barriers to raise the signal route must be unset and the route locking across the crossing must be free. (No White Route Lights).

An exception is made with the Auto Raise facility whereby there is no requirement for the signal lever/route to be normal, however there's additional interlocking here to prove that the signal has been used, returned to danger and that the train has operated track circuits across the crossing in the correct sequence.

FF
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