Request Pilotman / Handsignaller

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Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 06/01/2012 at 22:32 #26874
TRC666
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The ability to request a handsignaller or pilotman would be a useful feature to have in SimSig.

Below is an example of what the dialogue box and menu would look like:


In this example the line beyond Yatton (towards Weston) is closed. Down trains would terminate at Yatton and after being handsignalled would proceed wrong line towards Nailsea and Backwell and then across the Flax Bourton crossover. Right clicking on a platform would bring up a menu to request a pilotman or handsignaller and the resulting dialogue box would ask for the direction requested (down, up or all trains).

Would like to hear opinions on this from other users and the SimSig team if possible.

Last edited: 06/01/2012 at 22:33 by TRC666
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 06/01/2012 at 22:42 #26875
headshot119
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Sounds like a good shout Steve.

Would be especially useful for sims such as Saltley, as Pilotman working on the Redditch branch could be simulated (SY8 being maintained at danger until the pilotman is on board.)

"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 06/01/2012 at 23:00 #26876
jc92
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could the existing core code which governs pilotman working (exists as a startup option on cambs but i beleive it is general core code not sim specific) be used as a basis for this, i rather like the way it works
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
Last edited: 06/01/2012 at 23:00 by jc92
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 06/01/2012 at 23:17 #26878
Steamer
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Quick question, what are hand signallers used for?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 06/01/2012 at 23:59 #26880
jc92
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they act under instructions from a signaller, giving instructions or indications to the driver. for instance, during single line working, there may be a crossover which has no protecting signal when running wrong road, so a handsignaller can be appointed to act as a fixed signal under the signallers instruction
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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The following user said thank you: Steamer
Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 00:46 #26881
TRC666
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One example I saw a few weeks ago was Single Line Working (SLW) from Hinchley Wood to Cobham & Stoke d'Abernon on the down line.

The pilotman boarded at Hinchley Wood, rode with the train to Cobham, and on return a handsignaller operated the ground frame and signalled the train over the unsignalled crossover at Claygate, then the pilotman alighted again at Hinchley Wood to await the next train to enter the section.

There is planned SLW between Eastleigh and Southampton Airport Parkway this weekend due to engineering works, so there will most likely be a handsignaller at the latter.

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 00:50 #26882
jc92
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quick question TRC- what happens with this setup youve displayed when there is no station in the vicinity of the limits of SLW working?

do we click on the nearest signal? etc

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 00:51 #26883
BarryM
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Have you seen Cambridge's example?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 01:08 #26884
TRC666
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To answer your question Joe - yes, you would click on a signal to request pilotman / handsignaller working, and also to hold the signal at red a bit like on Cambridge when Sawston Blockage is running.
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 10:35 #26889
y10g9
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" said:
The ability to request a handsignaller or pilotman would be a useful feature to have in SimSig.

Below is an example of what the dialogue box and menu would look like:


In this example the line beyond Yatton (towards Weston) is closed. Down trains would terminate at Yatton and after being handsignalled would proceed wrong line towards Nailsea and Backwell and then across the Flax Bourton crossover. Right clicking on a platform would bring up a menu to request a pilotman or handsignaller and the resulting dialogue box would ask for the direction requested (down, up or all trains).

Would like to hear opinions on this from other users and the SimSig team if possible. :)
Steve, if this happened in real life, the trains would terminate at yatton, pull forward into the loop, and then reverse back at yatton over the emergency crossover that is provided there. In real life, those flax crossovers don't exist (just double checked on the baseline decleration and they don't exist) I would also be very surprised if in real life they did wrong line working for 7 miles, surely they would of called the coaches in

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 15:30 #26893
Stephen Fulcher
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" said:
Sounds like a good shout Steve.

Would be especially useful for sims such as Saltley, as Pilotman working on the Redditch branch could be simulated (SY8 being maintained at danger until the pilotman is on board.)
You just want an excuse to delay 2R43, although it has run late for the last two days without any help from any of us.

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 15:32 #26894
Stephen Fulcher
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Could have the Handsignaller "key" the auto to danger on the post as soon as he is appointed.

They can also be appointed for defective signals to speed up talking by.

Also of note, would a suitable delay be required between requesting a Handsignaller and one actually turning up?

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 16:23 #26895
jc92
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" said:

Also of note, would a suitable delay be required between requesting a Handsignaller and one actually turning up?
most likely he would turn up after the failure had gone on the sim?

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 16:30 #26896
jc92
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" said:
" said:
Sounds like a good shout Steve.

Would be especially useful for sims such as Saltley, as Pilotman working on the Redditch branch could be simulated (SY8 being maintained at danger until the pilotman is on board.)
You just want an excuse to delay 2R43, although it has run late for the last two days without any help from any of us.
good excuse to use the distant signal replacement switch?

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 16:38 #26897
Stephen Fulcher
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Indeed. although that is still a little pointless as can always clear SY5 on approach anyway.

There is also a good chance the HSM would arrive after the fault had been rectified.

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 17:01 #26899
ralphjwchadkirk
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" said:


Steve, if this happened in real life, the trains would terminate at yatton, pull forward into the loop, and then reverse back at yatton over the emergency crossover that is provided there. In real life, those flax crossovers don't exist (just double checked on the baseline decleration and they don't exist) I would also be very surprised if in real life they did wrong line working for 7 miles, surely they would of called the coaches in
And how exactly are you going to move a train over an unsignalled, ground frame controlled crossover if there's only the driver there?

Regarding the baseline declaration, it's not a good idea to use a nearly 3 year old, not for operational use appendix to plan moves.

And yes, single line working can continue for miles and miles. There's no limit really.

Last edited: 07/01/2012 at 17:02 by ralphjwchadkirk
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 18:50 #26905
Noisynoel
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As for staffing if you need a pilotman and handsignaller then you could wait for hours. For example if I wanted to run SLW down ain the Hastings area then you are looking for over an hour just for one person, as for a second... well, lets just say the chances are the S&T would be there first. Of course by this time the train service is so far down the pan that SLW is not going to have any benifit as any TOC would have already put buses on between the two locations.
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 19:50 #26906
ralphjwchadkirk
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" said:
As for staffing if you need a pilotman and handsignaller then you could wait for hours. For example if I wanted to run SLW down ain the Hastings area then you are looking for over an hour just for one person, as for a second... well, lets just say the chances are the S&T would be there first. Of course by this time the train service is so far down the pan that SLW is not going to have any benifit as any TOC would have already put buses on between the two locations.

Quite agree. Given how NR are cutting their ops staff, then it's quite probable that the fault is fixed before they've a chance to put it in. However, during planned engineering work SLW is quite common for the distance of the possession, where they've already rostered ops staff to act as hand signallers/pilotman. SLW is also a lot more common during faults on core routes.

TOCs are also VERY slow in laying on transport. I've been delayed 2+ hours when it was clear nothing was going to move, and still the TOC hadn't thought about laying on taxis or another form of transport for us.

Last edited: 07/01/2012 at 19:50 by ralphjwchadkirk
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 20:41 #26909
TRC666
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" said:
Steve, if this happened in real life, the trains would terminate at yatton, pull forward into the loop, and then reverse back at yatton over the emergency crossover that is provided there. In real life, those flax crossovers don't exist (just double checked on the baseline decleration and they don't exist) I would also be very surprised if in real life they did wrong line working for 7 miles, surely they would of called the coaches in
I'm aware now that Flax crossover is no longer there, but in this situation I was just showing an example of how the feature would work using the first sim that came to mind. Also in this example the engineering work would be directly beyond Yatton platforms rendering the crossover and loop out of use (track replacement for example), and for whatever reason a service had to be provided to at least Yatton by rail. The Cobham SLW that occured last month was between Cobham and Claygate, total distance of 3 miles 52 chains wrong line working.

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 20:51 #26912
ralphjwchadkirk
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" said:
" said:
Steve, if this happened in real life, the trains would terminate at yatton, pull forward into the loop, and then reverse back at yatton over the emergency crossover that is provided there. In real life, those flax crossovers don't exist (just double checked on the baseline decleration and they don't exist) I would also be very surprised if in real life they did wrong line working for 7 miles, surely they would of called the coaches in
I'm aware now that Flax crossover is no longer there, but in this situation I was just showing an example of how the feature would work using the first sim that came to mind. Also in this example the engineering work would be directly beyond Yatton platforms rendering the crossover and loop out of use (track replacement for example), and for whatever reason a service had to be provided to at least Yatton by rail. The Cobham SLW that occured last month was between Cobham and Claygate, total distance of 3 miles 52 chains wrong line working.
In fact, you've just reminded me when they worked the Farnham - Aldershot section bang road because of engineering work.

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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 07/01/2012 at 20:53 #26913
jc92
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does SimSig not also simulate the 70s and 80s also, where the railway was less incompetent at rostering and staffing, and got things done, hence this tool would reasonably apply
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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The following user said thank you: Stephen Fulcher
Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 08/01/2012 at 13:06 #26927
Stephen Fulcher
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It is also worth noting that whilst it now requires someone qualified, normally the local Mobile Operations Manager, to act as a Pilotman, there are still many staff in the maintenance organisation, mainly P-way staff, who are qualified to act as Handsignalmen.
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Re: Request Pilotman / Handsignaller 08/01/2012 at 18:10 #26934
Hooverman
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I like the idea of bringing SLW into SimSig, it could introduce some interesting sim play. I bet it works smoother in the sim than in real life. On the Btn ML even though it's planned it never works that well, starting late, trains missing from the plan, unrealistic transit times or the Pilotman ending up at the wrong end. But we get plenty of it, usually on saturday night into Sunday morning. The main locations are Coulsdon North GF to East Croydon over the Up Fast Ln, South Croydon to Stoats Nest Jcn over the Down Slow Ln, Purley to Redhill over the Down Redhill Ln with the wrong direction section split into two sections, Gatwick Airport to Earlswood or Redhill over the Up Slow Ln and Three Bridges to Gatwick Airport over the Up Slow Ln. We get about 1 or maybe 2 lots of SLW a month on average over one of those locations.
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