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| What are these slots for? 01/02/2012 at 13:43 #28552 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I'm baffled by these objects on the Lime Street panel. Nothing in the manual or Wiki symbols page seems to match them. What are they for and how do you use them please? The little buttons resemble slots of some kind. Thanks. Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 01/02/2012 at 13:52 #28555 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
The grey blob is the signaller sitting at his panel, thus showing the orientation. Common on panels to show this; not so relevant to IECC. It's a "you are here"! :) The hollow orange circle is a TRTS indicator that's not drawn on a platform. However, I note the Wiki does not indicate these symbols. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: maxand, Gwasanaethau |
| Re: What are these slots for? 01/02/2012 at 15:11 #28564 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:The grey blob is the signaller sitting at his panel, thus showing the orientation. Common on panels to show this; not so relevant to IECC. It's a "you are here"! :) I have sometimes also heard it said that the blob in the middle of a signalbox represents the centre of the box, for measurement purposes. If so there's no consistency whatsoever; some multi-manned boxes have one dot while others have one per signalman. (I'd like to see them put in a dot for every signalman at London Bridge or Victoria!) Incidentally, the straight bar in the signalbox represents that it's a lever frame (in this case a Westinghouse Style L power frame of, I believe, 1947). If it were a panel there would be "wings" at the end, pointing toward the centre line of the box (down in this case - the bobby works back to traffic) at 45 degrees. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Gwasanaethau, maxand |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 09:29 #28640 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
" said:the bobby works back to trafficI have noticed that this seems to be the case whenever such a box is shown. What is the reasoning behind it? Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 10:29 #28642 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
So that he can turn round and observe the passage of the trains. It's historical from AB days when the signalman had to check the tail lamp of the train to ensure it was conplete. However, before someone pipes up and corrects me.. It doesn't mean that in those days EVERY box was that way round, it was the 'preffered' way.
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 10:53 #28643 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:" said:the bobby works back to trafficI have noticed that this seems to be the case whenever such a box is shown. What is the reasoning behind it? Originally virtually all railways put the frame in the front of the box; the bobby looked over the levers to see the passing trains. There were few instruments on the block shelf (and in many cases the shelf was very short); sometimes (the Great Northern was fond of this apparently) the block instruments were in the back of the box (perhaps no block shelf at all), so visibility was excellent. As the years passed, layouts became larger & more complex (many increased from 2 to 4 and even 6 main tracks), which meant the diagram (hung in the roof) became larger & intruded into the signalman's view. Obviously the number of block instruments increased in line with the number of tracks. As signals were placed further away signal repeaters sometimes had to be provided, along with track circuit indicators (illuminated diagrams came later, or in some cases not at all). Electric locks on the levers often meant plungers (large pushbuttons) on the front of the block shelf to release the electric lock while the lever was pulled, forcing many of the repeaters & indicators onto the top of the shelf where they further obstructed the view. This was, in fact, the signalman's lot for (probably) the majority of signalboxes right up to the end of mechanical working. There's an example of what it could end up looking like here http://www.signalbox.org/gallery/lm/westhampstead.php . From just before WWI a few companies realised that, although it would mean the signalman having to turn away from the levers, a better view of traffic would be obtained by putting the frame in the back of the box rather than the front. The idea took hold steadily between the wars, although the GW never did it and nor, in general, did the Western Region. (There was certainly one exception in the frame they installed in the LNWR box at Kensington South Main and I believe the one at Greenford is likewise in the back, but I know of no others.) Many of the early power frames were likewise installed in the front of the box, but by the 1920s back of the box was pretty standard (the casing would, of course, obscure the view of lines close to the box). In this instance the GW followed tha majority; the power frames they installed at Cardiff and at Bristol were in the backs of the boxes. All the early panels were in the backs of boxes. But in the early 1960s quite a number, in desk format (the panel surface nearly horizontal) were installed in the front of the box; Barking, Southend Central and Hackney Downs were certainly of this form. Larger panels werre always installed with the signalman working back to traffic - again the panel itself would obstruct the view too badly, in the days when it was reckoned a bobby still needed to see the trains. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 13:30 #28659 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
Thanks for that - it's very interesting. " said: ....in the days when it was reckoned a bobby still needed to see the trains.And although there is now no need for them to do so, and they can only see a small part of the control area, the practice presumably continues... [Although I appreciate that the question originally came up on Lime Street sim, for which the large control area argument does not apply]. Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 14:49 #28662 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
" said:Thanks for that - it's very interesting.worksop, barnsley, thrumpton all face away from the track, admittedly thrumpton and barnsley also have MCBs to supervise. however barnsley has responsibility to see tail lamps for trains, ex woolley coal sidings (although it now has a camera for this purpose as well. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 16:05 #28663 | |
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Copping
95 posts |
Most boxes in Sussex i've noticed have the levers are at the front of the box except for Eastbourne where the levers faced the back of the box as well as the panel, I presume this was to give the signaller a better view of the station, and sidings.
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| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 20:31 #28676 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts |
'Course, these days with VDUs, there is no requirement to face any particular direction - or even to be anywhere near the railway. Sandhills is in the middle of an industrial estate; Liverpool Street is now surrounded by buildings with the railway beneath hidden from view; Swindon B, though next to the railway, is a good 11 miles away from its nearest controlled signal.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 20:46 #28681 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
The new South of Scotland Signalling Centre controlling Glasgow Central and points south thereof is in the middle of bandit country within brick-throwing distance of Cowlairs Box which is some distance North of Queen Street. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 02/02/2012 at 20:48 #28682 | |
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jc92
3629 posts |
needless to add EMCC is located next to the lines at derby, but the closest location it controls (that i can think of) is clay cross and the erewash valley line
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 03/02/2012 at 08:16 #28690 | |
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GeoffM
6282 posts |
" said:The new South of Scotland Signalling Centre controlling Glasgow Central and points south thereof is in the middle of bandit country within brick-throwing distance of Cowlairs Box which is some distance North of Queen Street.Ah yes, I remember wondering whether the taxi driver was about to mug me when we drove out into a brownfield area, before the shiny new building (with 10ft steel fencing, of course) appeared. " said: needless to add EMCC is located next to the lines at derby, but the closest location it controls (that i can think of) is clay cross and the erewash valley lineSpondon, 2 miles away, Trent workstation. 
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 03/02/2012 at 08:25 #28692 | |
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Haraubrad
103 posts |
When Banbury North was re-signaled in the late 50s the frame was moved to the back of the box. the weight of the frame caused the box to tilt alamingly towards the River Cherwell and it had to be under-pinned. the tilt can be observed from the road bridge. Aubrey Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 03/02/2012 at 09:00 #28693 | |
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Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
" said:" said:Taxi! I walked between the two- actually is was no too bad though I was a tad aprehensive.The new South of Scotland Signalling Centre controlling Glasgow Central and points south thereof is in the middle of bandit country within brick-throwing distance of Cowlairs Box which is some distance North of Queen Street.Ah yes, I remember wondering whether the taxi driver was about to mug me when we drove out into a brownfield area, before the shiny new building (with 10ft steel fencing, of course) appeared. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Re: What are these slots for? 05/02/2012 at 00:34 #28842 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
" said:When Banbury North was re-signaled in the late 50s the frame was moved to the back of the box. the weight of the frame caused the box to tilt alamingly towards the River Cherwell and it had to be under-pinned. the tilt can be observed from the road bridge.When Banbury North originally opened, the lever frame was at the front. As far as I am aware the main reason for the frame moving from the front of the box to the rear was so that the original lever frame could remain in operation whilst the new, slightly larger, one was installed. The new (current) frame is a GW 5-bar vertical tappet, although I do not know what was there before. The box is still rumoured to be moving slowly towards the river. Log in to reply |