Upcoming Games

No games to display

Full list
Add a game

Upcoming Events

No events to display

Who's Online

235 warnings

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Liverpool Lime Street > 235 warnings

Page 1 of 1

235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 07:28 #29056
maxand
Avatar
1637 posts
When I analysed Lime Street's timetable using Tools 1 it returned no fewer than 235 warnings. This seems a large number for a sim that was apparently fully tested before release.

Maybe one of the developers can throw light on the reason for this.

Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 07:32 by maxand
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 07:41 #29057
Aurora
Avatar
183 posts
I think they are all technicalities like 'train should have no departure time' because the vast majority of those trains change their run numbers before they depart. Or am I thinking of something else...
Nil.
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:20 #29065
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5354 posts
I've not looked myself but generally warnings are just that- rather than errors which will cause real difficulties. Some warnings are, as Aurora says, due to technical violations of the writing policy, whereas others will highlight anomalies with train joins and divides and next workings which would need to be further investigated. Often timetable writers, for your information, will write the expected departure time of the next working at the end of a terminating train's timetable- that's to assist you in knowing what's likely to happen next but is a policy violation hence the warning.

If the last train of the day is left in-Sim, say stabled in the neck siding, then that will cause a "no next working" warning.

So the answer to the question "does it matter" depends on the particular warnings you have.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:32 #29068
derbybest
Avatar
274 posts
Further to Peters post as a tt writer i do make mistakes when writing the most common one is not clicking X train joins Y train and it then says NXXX instead of JXXXX and therefore throws up the error. However i now check every few trains and correct it as i go along. You may see somthing like this(example only)
1R67 is at a different location
0R01 got lost
1R01 not defined

Hope this explains a little but thee above is just an example of a tt error which is easiely corrected

Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 09:54 #29074
Noisynoel
Avatar
989 posts
" said:
When I analysed Lime Street's timetable using Tools 1 it returned no fewer than 235 warnings.
Maxand,
You are totally correct, 235 WARNINGS

1F03: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F10: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F11: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F12: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F13: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F14: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F15: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F16: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F17: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F18: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F19: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F20: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F22: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F23: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F24: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F25: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F26: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F27: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F28: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F29: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F30: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F31: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F32: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F33: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F34: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F35: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F36: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F37: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F38: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F39: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F40: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F41: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F42: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F43: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F44: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F45: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F46: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F47: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F48: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F49: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F50: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F51: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F52: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F53: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F54: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F55: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F57: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F59: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F60: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F611: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F612: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F62: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F63: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F64: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F65: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F66: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F67: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F68: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F69: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F70: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F71: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F72: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F73: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F74: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F901: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F902: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F911: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F912: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F921: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F922: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F931: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F932: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F941: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F942: Associated train BERF not defined
1F942: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F942: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
1F951: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F96: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F97: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F98: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1F99: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R50: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R541: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R542: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R542: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R58: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R62: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R66: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R70: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R74: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R78: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R82: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R86: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R90: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R94: Final location should not have a departure time specified
1R98: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F011: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F012: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F031: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F031: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F032: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F05: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F061: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F07: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F09: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F09: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F211: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F212: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F213: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F214: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F231: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F232: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F233: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F233: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F234: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F234: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F251: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F252: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F253: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F254: Associated train BERF not defined
2F254: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F271: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F272: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F273: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F291: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F292: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F293: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F311: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F312: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F313: Associated train BERTH not defined
2F313: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F331: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F332: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F333: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F351: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F352: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F353: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F371: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F372: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F373: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F391: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F392: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F393: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F511: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F512: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F513: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F514: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F515: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F531: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F532: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F533: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F534: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F535: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F551: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F552: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F553: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F554: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F555: Associated train BERF not defined
2F555: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F571: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F572: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F573: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F574: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F575: Associated train BERF not defined
2F575: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F591: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F592: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F593: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F594: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F595: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F611: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F612: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F613: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F614: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F615: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F631: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F632: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F633: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F634: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F635: Associated train BERF not defined
2F635: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F651: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F652: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F653: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F654: Associated train BERF not defined
2F654: Terminates at Liverpool Lime Street with no onward working
2F671: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F672: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F673: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F674: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F691: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F692: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F693: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F694: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F911: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F912: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F913: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F914: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F915: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F931: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F932: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F933: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F934: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F935: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F951: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F952: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F953: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F954: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F955: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F971: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F972: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F973: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F974: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F975: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F991: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F992: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F993: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F994: Final location should not have a departure time specified
2F995: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F02: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F461: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F462: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F541: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F60: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F631: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5F71: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5J20: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5M06: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5R11: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5R19: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5R27: Final location should not have a departure time specified
5S99: Associated train BERF not defined
5S99: Terminates at Neck Siding with no onward working

Now, if you want me to eliminate 90% of those then I can, HOWEVER, it will make your life harder because each arrival will not show you what time it is booked to depart on it's next working, thus making it harder to replatform trains in times of disruption!
It does NOT mean that the timetable a) has not been fully tested and b) the timetable will not work!

" said:

This seems a large number for a sim that was apparently fully tested before release.
I think I speak for my partner in the TT writing, the Dev and his team of testers when I say that we are getting a little fed up of being critisied for something that we do in our spare time.

" said:

This seems a large number for a sim that was apparently fully tested before release.

Noisynoel
Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: Stephen Fulcher, welshdragon, delticfan, AndyG, DriverCurran, guidomcc, GoochyB, John, northroad, ExDistrictDriver, Sam Tugwell
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:00 #29078
jc92
Avatar
3626 posts
i see no problem with ANY of those warnings.

my oxted timetable (1993) showed up several warnings and still does, because i changed headcodes on a ballast train at lingfield, in order to slow it down to drop ballast - it was tested, works in practice, but still shows warnings.

noel- theres never going to be 100% satisfaction at anything, despite the fact its free. take it from the forum, that, of all the people that have downloaded and played lime street, only one true error has come up which was an incorrect divide. the significant majority have thanked you, in essence, by being quiet

as an aside max, why dont you have a crack at oxted, its a simple enough panel to work, and theres no complicated joins, splits etc involved.

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: AndyG
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:19 #29082
derbybest
Avatar
274 posts
Also note that there is a difference between warnings and errors
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:38 #29085
onlydjw
Avatar
456 posts
Perhaps Clive or Geoff could comment as to whether the coding could be adjusted to remove the warnings of "Final location should not have a departure time specified" - although officially it should not, it is a very useful feature which is being adopted by many TT writers, and it is offputting when so many warnings are shown for such a useful idea!
God bless, Daniel Wilson
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 10:43 #29087
GoodbyeMrFish
Avatar
148 posts
At the end of the day its free, well donationware some sims have bugs but the fun part is working around them. Just like the real railway nothing is perfect.
If you have paid 30 to 40 pound for this software, then i can understand posts like this. However you havent its free softare take it as is. I appreciate the time and effort put into these sims, and lime street is one of my favorites. Its small and easy to manage on your own.

I dont actually know who devloped it, but a big thank you from me. I remember when swindidcot was released the first time it had a few bugs. But its nothing major that cant be sorted out by the user. And to this day its one of my favorite sims.

Negative posts like this, nit picking at sims, is pathetic. Like has been said before. These sims are produced using the dev,s free spare time. Me being a father of 2 and working even i know how precious little time they must have. I bet alot of the developers have familys etc and other interests. Just be Gratefull For what is available and stop moaning.

Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: delticfan, Stephen Fulcher, derbybest, welshdragon
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 11:49 #29092
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5354 posts
I think the question asked originally was a fair one as it does at first sight seem odd that so many warnings are reported and it's not always immediately obvious why they occurred. Also I don't think there is any explanation anywhere of what all the warnings (and for that matter errors where relevant) actually mean.

The main warning that we have here is actually a recent addition one as there was a conscious decision very recently to flag these. As has been said in many cases they can be ignored, though maybe we a list.

However, I agree that the knee-jerk jumping to conclusions that the author did not know what they were doing nor did the testers in not fixing it, needs to stop. Perhaps the well-tried "innocent until proven guilty" maxim should apply in future. Assume the thing is correct (or at least not a problem), ask the question as to why it's correct and what it means then if there is an mistake I'm sure the author will acknowledge the error and be grateful for you highlighting the issue in a constructive way then take steps to rectify.

Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: derbybest, jc92, John, AndyG, alan_s, Steamer
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 13:12 #29102
maxand
Avatar
1637 posts
Thanks again for your feedback. I'm not critical of the sim - only found one glitch so far - but it really did puzzle me why so many warnings, so thanks for explaining.

NoisyNoel said
Quote:
it will make your life harder because each arrival will not show you what time it is booked to depart on it's next working, thus making it harder to replatform trains in times of disruption!
I get it now. The penny finally dropped. The real problem is that departure time for a new working train should have its own column, preferably to the right of the new working ID



That's a lot more intuitive. Trouble is, there isn't a departure time column for next working. I'd certainly support that, along with the choice to reduce font style and size from Courier 10 to a smaller, proportional font such as Arial or Verdana 9. Then truncated words such as REVE (for REVERSE) wouldn't be a problem any more.

Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 13:16 by maxand
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 13:40 #29105
postal
Avatar
5189 posts
" said:
Thanks again for your feedback. I'm not critical of the sim - only found one glitch so far - but it really did puzzle me why so many warnings, so thanks for explaining.
Maxand

I think you have the same genetic problem as I have in that the tact gene was omitted when the blueprint was followed. This posting probably just proves the point as far as my make-up is concerned!

Sometimes things are written or said where you just totally miss the impact of what you are saying (particularly if you think you are writing from a basis of fact) - I know, because I do the same and it has got me into some awful embarrassments. When I try really hard I can sometimes avoid dropping clangers like that for a while, but eventually my guard slips and out comes the comment that to me in the instant is innocuous but to the listeners or readers is violently and unashamedly rude.

I am sure that you have tried very hard over the last couple of weeks because there has been a marked reduction in the number of messages people have taken as inflammatory, but the original posting in this thread did come across as patronising and offensive even though that was not the intention. I know it doesn't always work, but I am sure a lot of the heat on the Forum could be dissipated while we manage to retain the light if you could try and re-read a posting from the reader's point of view before you press Submit.

“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 18:19 by postal
Log in to reply
The following users said thank you: guidomcc, AndyG, onlydjw, Sam Tugwell, Steamer, maxand, ExDistrictDriver
Re: 235 warnings 08/02/2012 at 19:19 #29150
Hpotter
Avatar
205 posts
Maxand wrote:
Quote:
I get it now. The penny finally dropped. The real problem is that departure time for a new working train should have its own column, preferably to the right of the new working ID



That's a lot more intuitive. Trouble is, there isn't a departure time column for next working. I'd certainly support that, along with the choice to reduce font style and size from Courier 10 to a smaller, proportional font such as Arial or Verdana 9. Then truncated words such as REVE (for REVERSE) wouldn't be a problem any more.
Ok, can see the logic here so it would then be along the lines of the simplifiers, but the Dep/Pass time is in fact very easy to use....
00:00 = Departure time
00/00 = passing time
00d00 = set down only time
00t00 = through line stop time.

Last edited: 08/02/2012 at 19:20 by Hpotter
Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 09/02/2012 at 17:43 #29214
GoochyB
Avatar
222 posts
" said:

Ok, can see the logic here so it would then be along the lines of the simplifiers, but the Dep/Pass time is in fact very easy to use....
00:00 = Departure time
00/00 = passing time
00d00 = set down only time
00t00 = through line stop time.
Maybe a simpler alternative to creating another field solely for use for departure time of next working, another code could be set up for the Dep/Pass field, i.e. 00n00 = next working departure time. If you wanted to get really clever then the timetable analyser could, when finding an entry in that field for the final location of a TT, check for the 'n' in the time, and check the time matches the Dep time of the N: service TT.

In typing this I've realised that the TT analysis won't necessarily be that simple - add a Join into the mix and the possible permutations to check are multiplied upwards.

Log in to reply
Re: 235 warnings 11/02/2012 at 02:49 #29282
northroad
Avatar
870 posts
" said:

I'd certainly support that, along with the choice to reduce font style and size from Courier 10 to a smaller, proportional font such as Arial or Verdana 9. Then truncated words such as REVE (for REVERSE) wouldn't be a problem any more.
Maxand,
Probably a good idea for you young wipper snappers but steady on here. My 15.6" screen only allows me to see half of the vertical height on some sims and I have to scroll up and down to see what is going on at times.
Not being able to read the text with my +3's would be a total disaster.

Geoff

Log in to reply