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| TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 16:16 #29498 | |
appel42
5 posts |
although the attached image is the gloucester sim, its a general question: what are passenger trains allowed to do if they cannot follow their normal route, due to tcf. in the attached picture, i've got a train coming from the left (barnwood jn) that has to go to gloucester and then go to standish jn. now there is the tcf in the way obviously. what is allowed now? 1. can i fix and key the points at barnwood jn (and other points) and run it via the UP main to horton road jn? 2a. can i run it via the avoiding line (including authorisation to pass red signal) to gloucester yard jn and then reverse to gloucester station? 2b. for realism: the train that is coming is "pulled" by a loco, i.e. would be scheduled to join the loco in the sidings in order to reverse. if 2a was possible, a loco change would probably have to occur at gloucester yard jn on the line and then again at gloucester to reverse again. 3. if neither of the above is possible, what would be the plan of action in real life. obviously no other train apart from trains coming from barnwood jn scheduled to go to gloucester are affected. so would those for example just miss out gloucester and go to standish jn? in case this is done on short notice, would passengers for gloucester have to travel to say, bristol and then take another train back again? how would this look like in real life? and what would happen to trains from barnwood jn that run in direction of wales. they cannot just miss out gloucester? would they be diverted via the charfield line? Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Firefly |
| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 16:21 #29499 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
No train can get directly to Gloucester in this situation. Whilst it is possible to go round to Gloucester Yard Junction and reverse, in reality it is more likely that the train would just use the avoiding line and omit the station stop at Gloucester. There are two possibilities for moving the points in real life, neither of which is possible on the Gloucester sim. In this case the most probable would be for a Mobile Operations Manager to go out, wind the points by hand to whichever position the Signaller wants them, and then secure them with a clip and scotch. The other would be for the S&T to perform a release of controls, the signaller key the points the other way, and the S&T to reoccupy the track circuit to its failed state afterwards. This would not be a lot of use here though, as you would then lose the route towards Gloucester Yard Junction. Log in to reply |
| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 16:26 #29500 | |
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appel42
5 posts |
so i cannot even key the points to the left of the TCF in order to use the other line (UP MAIN) ?
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| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 17:06 #29503 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
" said:so i cannot even key the points to the left of the TCF in order to use the other line (UP MAIN) ?You can actually set a normal route from signal 50 to signal 444 (on the UGL), and from there into Gloucester station as apropriate. Although you could (probably) get the train to do it, working wrong direction on the Up Main is very dangerous, especially since there isn't a signal before Horton Road LC! "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 15/02/2012 at 17:12 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 17:26 #29504 | |
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appel42
5 posts |
i thought you cannot use a goods loop with passenger trains.
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| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 17:31 #29505 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
you can under exceptional circumstances, provided a suitable overlap/clearing point is provided, and the block section is maintained absolute
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 18:04 #29509 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
" said:" said:The Up Main would be a definate no unless a Single Line Working was put in, and then you would have to have a Pilotman for all trains on the Up Main in BOTH directions, and more than likely a Level Crossing Attendant at Horton Road as well.so i cannot even key the points to the left of the TCF in order to use the other line (UP MAIN) ?You can actually set a normal route from signal 50 to signal 444 (on the UGL), and from there into Gloucester station as apropriate. Although you could (probably) get the train to do it, working wrong direction on the Up Main is very dangerous, especially since there isn't a signal before Horton Road LC! I did not try the Up Goods route earlier when I wrote my reply initially, however it does work. In normal circumstances passenger trains would not be permitted to use this route due to running on shunt signals, no overlaps etc. As JC92 states above under exceptional circumstances the local Control Office might authorise passenger trains to use Goods lines after consultation with the relevant Train Operating Companies Controls as well, but there would be strict rules applied, in this case only one train would be allowed between signal G50 and Gloucester Station at any one time, and no movements over the Up Main in the Up direction at the same time either. Also of note, you can "work around" the track circuit failure to go towards Gloucester Yard Junction as there is a valid route from G50 to signal G156 on the Up Avoiding Line, which would be allowed for passenger purposes and would use the crossover immediately in front of G50 to get there. Log in to reply |
| Re: TCF and passenger trains: what is allowed? 15/02/2012 at 19:21 #29514 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
" said:Also of note, you can "work around" the track circuit failure to go towards Gloucester Yard Junction as there is a valid route from G50 to signal G156 on the Up Avoiding Line, which would be allowed for passenger purposes and would use the crossover immediately in front of G50 to get there. Not in this case, unless the remainder of the route previously set from G50 (and being held by the TCF) can be released first! I'd agree that the conditions to use the Up Goods would (rightly) be quite strict. Just out of interest, where would these restrictions normally be specified, especially for the more obscure possibilities? SBSIs? In this case, I guess you'd have to set the route (backwards?) right through to the passenger line at the far end before any passenger train could be allowed to use it - I seem to remember a reference in the Rule Book to clear adjacent sidings or goods lines of vehicles (as there'll be no trap points to prevent them running onto the line being used by the passenger train) too. Not sure why the Up Main couldn't be used at the same time though, as long as the above was met. Log in to reply |