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| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 11:01 #15586 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
Ah but fortunatly SimSig has a "Monarchy" with Executive power to decide otherwise. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 12:10 #15589 | |
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Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
clive said:Annoyingly, I've just come across the perfect analogy to explain the benefits of AV.On all seriousness I think there is a flaw in the analogy as there was in the cats' video- here the pub votes are georgahically disparate but there is no geographical location for the coffee shop. So it maybe that people are voting for the pub in Inverness because that's where they live but the coffee shop is in Manchester. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 13:28 #15594 | |
Josie
310 posts |
Peter Bennet said:On all seriousness I think there is a flaw in the analogy as there was in the cats' video- here the pub votes are georgahically disparate but there is no geographical location for the coffee shop. So it maybe that people are voting for the pub in Inverness because that's where they live but the coffee shop is in Manchester.The analogy is slightly flawed but the point it makes is still valid. To take an example from my ward, I had Conservative, Green, Labour/Co-op and Lib Dem candidates. Historically, at least, there might have been quite a significant vote split between Labour/Co-op and Lib Dem (and possibly Green to a certain extent as well). To tie it back in with the analogy, the type of drink served is a broad left- or right-wing label, and the detail of location is the nitty-gritty of individual party policies. In some elections there is a die-hard section of the electorate who are so adamant they want a coffee shop, the fact that there's only one and it's in Manchester isn't important. Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 15:34 #15600 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
I'm voting No to Time Travel on May the 6th. What? 
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| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 17:35 #15605 | |
postal
5190 posts |
clive said:Quote:CliveIn AV some people effectively get multiple votes which I think is unfair.That's another lie/misrepresentation from the "no" people. I have to say that I think your analysis is flawed. In AV, if your first choice vote is for the ultimate winner, then in effect you have cast one vote. On the other hand if you support one of the candidates who is eliminated, then you are in the situation of "ah, your first choice didn't work, have another go". That looks very like more than one vote to me. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 17:41 #15606 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
postal said:In AV, if your first choice vote is for the ultimate winner, then in effect you have cast one vote. On the other hand if you support one of the candidates who is eliminated, then you are in the situation of "ah, your first choice didn't work, have another go". That looks very like more than one vote to me. John You are also in the situation of "nobody won, so let's count again", and the first choices for the ultimate winner, and everybody else, are counted a second time. If you want to look at it that way, everybody gets more than one vote, because everyone's vote is counted again at each round. Those woh voted for the first choice should be happier, because their first choice is still in and therefore their preferred vote is still used. Brian Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 17:45 #15607 | |
northroad
870 posts |
"I have to say that I think your analysis is flawed" Quite agree with you Postal. Even if there is a second run off your first choice vote is effectively counted as your first choice in the second round and so on into the third etc. Why on earth should you want to vote for another person when your first choice is still in the ballot............. Geoff Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 19:01 #15609 | |
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Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
Another way of looking at it I guess is that generally 45 ish % of the voters currently get what they wish so over time around 80-90 % get what they want around 50% of the time. Fiddling around with other systems might mean 100% of the voters never get what they want- though it appears in Scotland the system which was meant to ensure permanent minority government failed somewhat spectacularly. Oh well apparently the BBC are predicting 70% No on a turnout of 40% which seems to indicate an rather a lot of "scared" people. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 06/05/2011 at 22:28 #15617 | |
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Lordmwa
148 posts |
I quite fancy the idea of having a go at demarchy Might be a laugh for a bit and cant be any worse than FPTP can it? :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 08/05/2011 at 15:31 #15647 | |
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Foulounoux
26 posts |
I voted in advance postal vote No for the following reasons and have only just got back into UK 1) The main justification for the Yes campaign seems to have been blast the Tories got in so lets change the system so they cant - thankfully a large number of independent minded Labour politicians decided this was not a justification for AV. Therefore the motive that this was a fairer way of voting was tainted by a party political element 2) The Yes campaign didn't really want AV they wanted true PR. So the campaign was buy this Mini we know you want a Rolls Royce but its all you can have at the moment well try and swap it for a Rolls later on 3) The Yes campaign made great strength that a switch to AV would make MP's work harder for each vote. They forgot to mention now many safe seats there are where the sitting MP already gets more than 50% of the vote 4) Why should someone who voted the last placed candidate get a second choice whilst I as someone who voted for the 2nd placed candidate didn't. It would be highly likely that in a run off a number of similar parties are eradicated and there votes recast to enable one of the top 3 parties to get more than 50% BUT because eI voted for the party that was in the lead I don't get a 2nd,3rd or 4th preference taken into account and suddenly I find that the party that came 3rd has been elected beat ing my party who now come second when I would have liked the party that came 3rd to win But because my party was in the 1st place until the final round my 2nd choices aren't taken into account. Let us be clear AV only allows the 2nd choices of the eliminated candidates to be reallocated - this is one of its major flaws. AV is not a fair system and certainly not an improvement on FPTP And post results I now see that some of the YES campaign are saying well they lost because the old fuddy duddies voted no whilst younger people voted yes .. as if the age of the voter makes a difference. They lost because lots of Tory voters came out to vote - so what if that means these people bothered more than others then so be it thats democracy. And as to Vince Cables comments well what did he expect this was an election, when you fight an election you have to be ruthless ...... etc Colin Log in to reply |
| Alternative Vote (AV) poll 08/05/2011 at 16:38 #15650 | |
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Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
Think it's probably time to move on from this now. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |