Page 1 of 1
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 16:44 #30707 | |
DaveHarries
1266 posts |
How about a sim incorporating the Salisbury - Exeter line? IIRC the area covered would be near Wilton Junction (at the Salisbury end) down to just east of Pinhoe. Could be played to either a standard TT or, what would be perhaps more fun, standard TT with diverted FGW HSTs. Edit: As an aside, how about another London sim? The area covered by London Bridge PSB would perhaps be fun in consideration of the area it covers. Just a thought. Dave Last edited: 16/03/2012 at 16:55 by DaveHarries Log in to reply |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 18:55 #30710 | |
Jan
889 posts |
You're lucky ;-), London Bridge is already being developed.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 19:28 #30711 | |
|
DaveHarries
1266 posts |
Many thanks for the link, Jan. As someone who, back on 13th March, had to go from Eltham to Charring Cross I will definately look forward to playing the London Bridge sim when it comes out. Dave Log in to reply |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 21:41 #30715 | |
|
tbh183
24 posts |
I've just noticed this and was intrigued by the link in which the following was stated: "In reality it's nine panels: panel 1 is Charing Cross, panel 2 is Cannon Street, panel 3 controls LB eastern side and Spa Road Jn, panel 4 controls North Kent East Jn, New Cross, Lewisham and Charlton, panels 5 to 7 control the main line from Lewisham down to Grove Park, as well as the Hayes branch (the sim didn't have the boundaries in yet, so I'm not sure exactly what's what), and then panel 8 controls LB central side, and panel 9 controls New Cross Gate." I used to work London Bridge and the Panel Coverage above is almost correct. Panel 1: Charing Cross Station to Borough Market Junction (CHX Lines) and Blackfriars Junction (exc) [fringe with Victoria Panel 6] to Metropolitan Junction to Cannon Street (exc). The Metropolitan Reversible is the changeover between Panels 1 and 2. Panel 2: Cannon Street to Metropolitan Junction (Panel 1) and Platforms 1, 2 & 3 (London End) at London Bridge. Panel 3: Borough Market Junction (CHX Lines) and P1, 2 & 3 (Country End) at London Bridge to midway between Spa Road Junction and North Kent East Junction. Fringes with Panel 8 at Spa Road for FCC Services and with Panel 9 for moves to and from the terminus. Panel 4: Midway between Spa Road Junction & North Kent East Junction to Greenwich and St. Johns (exc) [this also covers the area the led to Bricklayers Arms Depot] Panel 5: Greenwich & St Johns to Woolwich and Kidbrooke (via Lewisham) [both fringe to North Kent Workstation 1 based at Ashford IECC] and Nunhead Junction (exc) [fringe with Victoria Panel 5 (I think)] to Lewisham and St. Johns to Parks Bridge Junction (exc) including the Flydown. Lewisham Platforms 3 & 4 are controlled by Panel 5 and Platforms 1 & 2 are split between Panels 5 (London End) and 6 (Country End). This also controls the entrance and exit from Angerstien Wharf but not the Wharf itself. Panel 6: Lewisham Platforms 1 & 2 to Hayes and Beckenham Junction (exc), and Parks Bridge Junction to midway between Courthill Loop Junction and Hither Green. This panel also covered the area that used to be the Addiscombe Branch from Elmers End and fringed with Addiscombe Box. Panel 7: midway between Courthill Loop Junction and Hither Green to Lee (Dartford Loop) [fringe with North Kent Workstation 1] and London End of Chislehurst Tunnels (london side of Elmstead Woods) where it fringes with Ashford IECC Workstation 1. Also the Bromley North Branch and the Depot Complexes at Hither Green and Grove Park (Up and Down) and the Freight Yard at Bramdean (Down Side adjacent to the carriage sidings). Panel 8: Norwood Junction (exc) to Bricklayers Arms Junction and the East London Line at New Cross Gate. Panel 9: Bricklayers Arms Junction to London Bridge Central. Can't remember who controls the South London Lines to Peckham Rye but it'll either be Panel 8 or 9. From what I've read on the post via the link this will definitely not be for a single player the service is just too intense (unless like me you're a sucker for that sort of thing) even at half speed if that facility is built in to the sim with perfect conditions and no failures. I'm sure that it'll be fun. Hope this helps for panel limits on the sim. David Log in to reply The following user said thank you: EddzDevon |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 21:49 #30716 | |
|
DaveHarries
1266 posts |
Well done for providing the info, David. Most interesting. Dave Log in to reply |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 22:02 #30717 | |
|
birchy74
151 posts |
When London Bridge does finally come out will it have ARS to help or not, As i can see it getting rather busy during rush hour
Log in to reply |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 22:09 #30718 | |
|
Sam Tugwell
493 posts |
The thread that Jan posted contains relevant reasons why ARS was removed from Bridge.
"Signalman Exeter" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: birchy74 |
| Re: Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2012 at 23:48 #30720 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:Can't remember who controls the South London Lines to Peckham Rye but it'll either be Panel 8 or 9. It's Panel 8, as that is who we at Victoria [Panel 3] fringe to between North & East Dulwich stations. " said: ... and Nunhead Junction (exc) [fringe with Victoria Panel 5 (I think)] ... That would be Victoria Panel 8. " said: Panel 6: Lewisham Platforms 1 & 2 to Hayes and Beckenham Junction (exc) Fringe between New Beckenham and Beckenham Jn with Victoria Panel 9. Last edited: 16/03/2012 at 23:52 by mfcooper Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2014 at 10:01 #57092 | |
Giantray
330 posts |
Is the London Bridge ASC Simsig still being developed? Would be interesting if you manage to develop ARS for it. London Bridge ASC is migrating to Three Bridges ROC, reducing 9 nx panels to 6 Westcad workstations, WITHOUT ARS!
Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2014 at 11:42 #57107 | |
Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
It was one of Kurt's, I don't know what he's doing these days. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2014 at 12:45 #57118 | |
|
John
884 posts |
" said:London Bridge ASC is migrating to Three Bridges ROC, reducing 9 nx panels to 6 Westcad workstations, WITHOUT ARS!This article says that there will only be 3 workstations - which will be equipped with ARS. TRE said: Network Rail required investigating the replacement of nine signalling positions at the London Bridge Area Signalling Centre with new control and interlocking from three Signallers workstations. In addition Network Rail wishes to introduce Automatic Route Setting (ARS) and new Train Describer system for the area. Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2014 at 15:17 #57131 | |
GeoffM
6280 posts |
" said:" said:Hmm, I think the author of that article got a bit confused! The simulator only covered the "core" area - that from Charing Cross/Cannon St/Blackfriars Jn to North Kent East Jn and Sydenham - panels 1, 2, 3, part of 4, 8, and 9. That would be three workstations, split horizontally (instead of the current vertically), so one signaller would handle the northernmost lines from Cannon Street to North Kent East Jn, the next would handle the middle lines from Blackfriars to Bricklayers Arms, and the third from London bridge Low Level to Sydenham. I realise I've missed out Charing Cross to New Cross Gate: I'll try to remember which workstation that was supposed to be.London Bridge ASC is migrating to Three Bridges ROC, reducing 9 nx panels to 6 Westcad workstations, WITHOUT ARS!This article says that there will only be 3 workstations - which will be equipped with ARS. Panels (part of) 4, 5, 6, and 7 were not included in the simulator. I don't know how many resignalled workstations they would cover. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 16/03/2014 at 15:29 #57132 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
And the move to the ROC is based on current technology (ie: Westcad/IECC). Just wait until they try to convert the ROCs to Traffic Management :silly:
Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 22/03/2014 at 14:52 #57576 | |
|
Jay_G
52 posts |
But, from what I understand, Traffic Management ISNT a signalling system (IE Westcad etc), but merely a planning tool that gives the Signallers TM (the name signallers in the ROCs will get, thank god it wont be dispatchers now!!!) vital information to help them plan and regulate in the future, and it works alongside ARS etc. Not sure if you have seen the latest brief, but there is a very good video on there about the whole TM package. From what I understand, its just going to be things like a "train plan graph", and will throw up messages about conflicts (IE two trains at a junction at the same time, if X goes first it will cause 100 minutes of delay, if Y goes first, it will cause 101 minutes of delay), and another bit I personally like is during an incident/failure, areas of control can be passed to another signaller, while you deal with the incident are. How easy that will be to work into the ROCs I do not know The rumours about it being all singing and all dancing product, which magically fixes the railway overnight are untrue. As a member of the implementation team said, it still needs experienced signallers to use it, its just a tool that can help run the train service. Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 24/03/2014 at 15:08 #57671 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:As a member of the implementation team said, it still needs experienced signallers to use it, its just a tool that can help run the train service.And I happen to be one of the "Evaluation Team" from NR sent into the 3 prototype offices! (Though thankfully managed to avoid the interview video that has been shown in signaller briefings) TM is not a signalling system, but that doesn't mean that the current technology workstations within a ROC are just going to have TM bolted on top of them. This may happen if an area of control is *not* going to be flexible, but from what we found during the evaluation period is that to gain the full benefit of a TM system, one needs flexible areas of control. This means the number of TM workstations required to control an area within a ROC compared to 'current technology' workstations will more than likely be different. And with the ideas that are in place regarding the roles (jobs) required for TM, it is also likely there will be different staffing levels (but perhaps more than 'current tech' - all to be decided). NB: I notice your 'dig' at the name "Dispatcher" (and perhaps "Incident Manager" & "Service Delivery Planner"). The TM project team for NR were told at one stage to give them a name, whereas the early documents just had "Role A, Role B & Role C". As soon as they used names, they were told that they shouldn't have done. They just couldn't win! Last edited: 24/03/2014 at 15:10 by mfcooper Reason: typo Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 10:27 #58223 | |
|
Jay_G
52 posts |
Hello mate Firstly, sorry!! My post seemed shirty and I didn't mean for it to at all, or to be condescending! And again, didn't realise you was part of the evaluation (that's the word, not implementation DURH!) team, so sorry for that too! Your post was insightful, thanks a lot!! When you talk about flexible areas, is that where the area of control should be adjustable to focus on particular incidents? Very interesting stuff. And what was the whole "idea" behind these pods? Our briefer wasn't overly sure, but it sounded like one signaller, a relief signaller incase of the above incident flexibility thing, and some people from control!! And no dig at dispatcher mate, just don't like the Americanism!! Also see there is a vacancy at your place internally, thinking about putting in for it!! Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 16:06 #58246 | |
|
GeoffM
6280 posts |
RE the label "dispatcher" for signaller came about a few years ago. I worked on a couple of the bids with two of the companies that ultimately made the shortlist so I saw a load of the early work, albeit mostly on paper at that point. The term "dispatcher" was because it was felt the role would be more than just a signaller. The signaller's role would be diminished due to automation so s/he would be able to do other duties as well, such as electrical control or whatever.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 16:40 #58253 | |
|
Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:And I happen to be one of the "Evaluation Team" from NR sent into the 3 prototype offices! (Though thankfully managed to avoid the interview video that has been shown in signaller briefings).Even though you didn't make the interviews I'm sure I saw you sitting in the background pretending to be busy in one of the shots. 
Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 17:06 #58256 | |
|
mfcooper
707 posts |
NB: Just my opinions on what I've seen so far, this may not be representative of the final plans. ----- " said: Firstly, sorry!! My post seemed shirty and I didn't mean for it to at all, or to be condescending! And again, didn't realise you was part of the evaluation (that's the word, not implementation DURH!) team, so sorry for that too! No need to apologise - I was fairly shirty in my reply, and I don't think I've advertised the fact I was part of the evaluation much on here. " said: Your post was insightful, thanks a lot!! When you talk about flexible areas, is that where the area of control should be adjustable to focus on particular incidents? Very interesting stuff. Basically, someone can focus on the incident area, and pass the remainder of the "normal" workstation size under normal running off to someone else. " said: And what was the whole "idea" behind these pods? Our briefer wasn't overly sure, but it sounded like one signaller, a relief signaller incase of the above incident flexibility thing, and some people from control!! To be honest, It's all TBC at the mo. There is an idea to have a bunch of TM signallers with their flexible workstations and spare capacity working alongside 1 or more TM controllers, depending on the control area. Again, all TBC. " said: And no dig at dispatcher mate, just don't like the Americanism!! No worries " said: " said:And I happen to be one of the "Evaluation Team" from NR sent into the 3 prototype offices! (Though thankfully managed to avoid the interview video that has been shown in signaller briefings). I (perhaps convieniently) *forgot* to hand in a permission slip for them to be able to use my interview footage  " said: Also see there is a vacancy at your place internally, thinking about putting in for it!! Which one is that? I know theres a temporary SSM secondment-like thing at the mo. One of the SSMs is seconded to Train Planning until at least December, if not longer. Last edited: 02/04/2014 at 17:07 by mfcooper Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Jay_G |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 19:00 #58260 | |
|
Jay_G
52 posts |
Thanks for your reply mate, really helpful! A lot of people are beig negative about the changes, personally I'm kind of looking forward to them (minus the job losses and the potential free for all for jobs), and I am a stone throw away from one of the ROCs. Making me doubt my self now!! But fairly sure I saw a grade 9 signaller position at Vic ASC, was advertised today. The only reason I haven't put in for it yet as my LOM has said I'm to wait 12 months from passing out before moving, but the box will be shut by then!!! Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 02/04/2014 at 21:22 #58273 | |
|
John
884 posts |
There are two vacancies on Connect; one for a grade 9 signaller and one for an SSM.
Log in to reply |
| Basingstoke ASC / London Bridge 03/04/2014 at 14:51 #58311 | |
|
Giantray
330 posts |
Curently the plan for LBASC at the ROC is, Workstation 1:[LBASC Panel 2, part of 3 & 4] Cannon Street - New Cross( lines 1,2 & 3)/Mazehill. Workstation 2:[LBASC Panel 1, part of 3 & 4] Charing Cross - New Cross( new lines 6,7,8 & 9). Workstation 3 will be a two position workstation London Bridge Central - Peckham Rye/East Dulwich 7 Anerley. Workstation 4:[West Hampsted ASC ?, Victoria Panel 6, part of LBASC panels 1,3,9] will be a three position workstation West Hampstead Area(limits yet to be decided)/the Thameslink Core/ Elephant & Castle/London Bridge Platform 4 & % to New Cross Gate. Workstation 5: [LBASC Panel 5 and part 4] New Cross/Lewisham - Woolwich/Eltham. Workstation 6:[LBASC Panels 6 & 7]Parks Bridge Jn- Mottingham, Grove Park, Hayes. Traffic Management is the way forward, however it is still untried 'live'. Any truth it doesn't work with IECC only Westcad? Traffic Management is just a bolt on regulating tool. Signallers will still be required to manage incidents, faults and failures, special works ( line restrictions etc.) Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Last edited: 03/04/2014 at 14:58 by Giantray Reason: adding extra comment Log in to reply |