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driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Released > Westbury > driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal

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driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 07/05/2012 at 21:30 #32173
jc92
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whilst playing the 2009 timetable, train 5K61 is attempting to shunt at bedwyn, however the lamp proving on signal R864 has failed. this is ONLY for the route into the reversing siding, hence it must be the PL subsidiary that is failing to prove, however the main signal would still be providing a red aspect. however in this case the signal shows as unlit, and when calling in, the driver reports standing at unlit signal.

a) shouldnt that be stood at red signal?

b) should the signal display as unlit, when only the GPL has failed?

joe

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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 00:07 #32174
Stephen Fulcher
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A - The driver should phone in to complain that he is standing at a red signal - he would not know that it is failed and 99% of the time the reason for him getting the same indication would be that you had not cleared it.

B - That depends on the interlocking. I do not know of any examples where the signal would show on the panel as unlit in its entirety when only a subsidiary aspect has failed as the signal will still have its red light displayed for drivers to stop at. Depending on the interlocking and to an even greater degree the circumstances, either the subsidiary aspect will be proved or it will not. Most in my experience or not. In these cases the indication that the signal is off on the signallers panel is merely an indication that the route has called correctly and that the central interlocking has "told" the signal to clear. Whether it has or not, the signaller theoretically has no way of knowing or not until the train either passes the signal, or the driver reports standing at a red.

Reading is a BR(W) E10k interlocking dating from the 1960s (although I do not know when this section was added to the panel). Far fewer signals were proved in those days than are nowadays with SSI. My guess, and I concede it is a guess albeit an educated one, is that the subsidiary aspect of the signal would not be proved back to the panel, so just because you can see on the panel that the signal has cleared does not mean that it is off on the ground.

Many signallers throughout the years have been caught out by this and reported wrong side indication failures.

The "fault" if any is technically a minor bug within the SimSig code which should have the driver phone up complaining that he is standing at a red signal rather than an unlit one.

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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 01:28 #32175
GeoffM
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Are you sure it wasn't the red lamp that had failed? The sub could still be showing a proceed aspect but the main should still show a red lamp. If this wasn't displayed then the signal is displaying an invalid aspect which requires reporting.
SimSig Boss
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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 09:16 #32176
Firefly
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Quote:
hence it must be the PL subsidiary that is failing to prove
Stephen is correct.

Sub signals do not have lamp proving. (not even on SSI and definitely not in Westbury's E10k interlocking.)

The only exception is pre-set shunts where the Off lamp is proved alight.

FF

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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 13:17 #32180
Stephen Fulcher
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On another point FF, those diagrams you sent me came useful the other day when I had to work out a route-calling fault! Thanks.
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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 14:12 #32183
Firefly
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No doubt the fault was in the non-vital stuff?

Are you enjoying Gods Wonderful Railway?

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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 14:25 #32184
Stephen Fulcher
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Was the WZR on a set of points actually, which seemed surprising at the time - was more or less expecting a Post Office relay!

I am enjoying it down here, thanks.

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Re: driver stood at unlit subsidiary signal 08/05/2012 at 21:55 #32197
jc92
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" said:
Are you sure it wasn't the red lamp that had failed? The sub could still be showing a proceed aspect but the main should still show a red lamp. If this wasn't displayed then the signal is displaying an invalid aspect which requires reporting.
the red lamp was proving for the main route (towards westbury) and was only showing failed when the route was set into the siding which, AFAIK is only served by a shunt route

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