Aspect colours?

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Aspect colours?

Page 1 of 2

Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 13:58 #3240
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		quick question all, what in the UK do you call the 3 aspect colours?

In Ireland it is green - amber - red, and i thought this was a world wide unification but on my hosting post for the 24 hour sim i posted under "rules"

"no players should change a signal from green/amber to red in front of an approching train".

which i received a reply post as follows from 'ralphwjchadkirk'
"Amber? AMBER?? There is no amber aspect! We call it yellow..."
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 13:58 #16691
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		quick question all, what in the UK do you call the 3 aspect colours?

In Ireland it is green - amber - red, and i thought this was a world wide unification but on my hosting post for the 24 hour sim i posted under "rules"

"no players should change a signal from green/amber to red in front of an approching train".

which i received a reply post as follows from 'ralphwjchadkirk'
"Amber? AMBER?? There is no amber aspect! We call it yellow..."
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:07 #16692
welshdragon
Avatar
315 posts 		That's because the term 'amber' isn't used widely in the railways here. You'll mostly find anything 'amber' translates to yellow here.

hope this helps
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:07 #16693
John
Avatar
884 posts 		I was taught that it was yellow - never amber.
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:11 #16694
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		i have heard it called yellow, amber and orange,

but the actuall colour on the signal is amber (a yellowy orange colour).
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:11 #16695
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5362 posts
Online 		Amber is what you get on road traffic lights.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:14 #16696
Josie
Avatar
310 posts 		The RGS rule book module on signals (PDF) shows the different sequences you can get. In summary:

Three-aspect: green, yellow, red
Four-aspect: green, two yellows ("double yellow"), one yellow ("yellow"), red
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:20 #16697
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		ah ok that explains a lot guys thanks so to sumerise,

UK: Green - Yellow - Red
Ireland: Green - Amber - Red
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:39 #16698
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5362 posts
Online 		I've been trying to find out if there is actually a difference in the colours as between traffic lights and signals. At a guess they will be proscribed somewhere.

For road I found The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1994, section 30 which refers to amber and that they " shall be of the size, colour and type shown in diagram 3000, 3000.3, 3000.4, 3000.5 or 3000.6" but I can't find the diagrams referred to. Not sure where to look for signals.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:42 #16699
ralphjwchadkirk
Avatar
275 posts 		It's become a bit of a joke on the railways really - it's defined as yellow, so that is what it should be called, so you would get a jokey response (like mine) if someone said otherwise.

I once saw someone say to an S&T Manager that a bulb needed changing in a signal. Cue S&T Manager shaped hole in roof, and a lecture about how bulbs grow in gardens and lamps go in signals!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 14:48 #16700
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		ralphjwchadkirk said:
Cue S&T Manager shaped hole in roof, and a lecture about how bulbs grow in gardens and lamps go in signals!
if you said to one of our S&E guys a bulb needed changing in a signal they would turn and walk away from you. Irish Rail are gone very strict on protocall.
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 15:39 #16701
frankwball
Avatar
16 posts 		Whilst serving on a scheme planning committee in BR days ( as a P Way engineer) I added to my basic knowledge of signalling when a signal engineer objected to a detail on the draft plan on the grounds that " you can't have a yellow eyed dolly ( ground signal ) in a red light area"
Not sure that has any relevance in the present discussion -but amber would not have made the samelasting impression in my mind!
Frank Ball
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 16:05 #16702
Quizman
Avatar
276 posts 		Peter Bennet said:
shall be of the size, colour and type shown in diagram 3000, 3000.3, 3000.4, 3000.5 or 3000.6" but I can't find the diagrams referred to.

Peter
The diagrams are in the schedules here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/schedule/8/made
Interestingly they do not mention the colours - that is done in the Traffic Signs Manual (typical bureaucracy - two books when you only need one!) which is copied in the 'Know Your Traffic Signs' booklet the relevant page here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Knowyourtrafficsigns/DG_192200

On the question of bulbs/lights etc. Professional highway people will normally refer to street lamp columns rather than lighting columns. Pedantic I know but still fun to annoy the general public.
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 16:56 #16705
Meld
Avatar
1098 posts
Online 		frankwball said:
" you can't have a yellow eyed dolly ( ground signal ) in a red light area"
Not sure that has any relevance in the present discussion
Frank Ball
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 17:24 #16706
clive
Avatar
2738 posts 		There used to be one kind of rail signal in the UK that was officially defined as "amber" - anyone care to guess?

Signal colours are defined by BS1376. Yellow signals are required to be signal yellow B, which is bounded by the equations y = x-0.12 (green limit), y=x-0.17 (red limit), and y=0.79-0.667x (white limit). Road signals used to be defined by BS505, which said that "amber" is signal yellow A. This relaxes the red limit to y=0.382 (allowing a redder colour). Amber rail signals were defined to be the same as amber road signals.

I don't have the time to explain the x and y stuff right now, except to note that all possible colours are within an area bounded by 0<x<0.75, 0<y<0.85, and x+y<=1. Google for "CIE chromaticity".
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 18:27 #16707
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5362 posts
Online 		clive said:
There used to be one kind of rail signal in the UK that was officially defined as "amber" - anyone care to guess?
Maybe LUL or, given the Irish angle we started with, NIR?

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 18:31 #16708
Meld
Avatar
1098 posts
Online 		I thought the old searchlight lenses on the Woodhead/Shenfield electrification schemes
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 18:43 #16709
afro09
Avatar
167 posts 		peter, i'm not sure about NIR as i know all Irish Rail 201 'river' class loco's that work the dublin - belfast route had to be modified to accpet our CAWS and the NIR equivelet train protection. as well as being fitted with Irish rail train radio they must also take on a hand held NIR train radio at dundalk.
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 18:57 #16710
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5362 posts
Online 		Ah just thought, there are the old shunt lights at places like Perth and Glasgow Central, though I see they are described as "Minature Yellow" on the plans so maybe not.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 18/06/2011 at 22:18 #16719
clive
Avatar
2738 posts 		No, not LUL or NIR. Not the old searchlights or the miniature yellows.

I'm talking British Rail / Railtrack / Network Rail main line, though I can't remember the last time I saw one and they are no longer in the Rail Group Standards (they disappeared about 10 years ago, though that doesn't mean that the relevant amber signals aren't still around).
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 19/06/2011 at 02:35 #16723
Quizman
Avatar
276 posts 		Another interesting question that was discussed as an imprompto quiz in the pub tonight (on the same subject).
What was the name of a television question master who compered a TV quiz involving intellectual people?
Answers below = no prizes!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 19/06/2011 at 08:18 #16730
Peter Bennet
Avatar
5362 posts
Online 		Quote:
Another interesting question that was discussed as an imprompto quiz in the pub tonight (on the same subject).
What was the name of a television question master who compered a TV quiz involving intellectual people?
Answers below = no prizes!
Amber Gascoigne?

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 19/06/2011 at 09:30 #16733
GeoffM
Avatar
6287 posts
Online 		clive said:
No, not LUL or NIR. Not the old searchlights or the miniature yellows.

I'm talking British Rail / Railtrack / Network Rail main line, though I can't remember the last time I saw one and they are no longer in the Rail Group Standards (they disappeared about 10 years ago, though that doesn't mean that the relevant amber signals aren't still around).
I vaguely remember the big railway had some fog signals with amber and green aspects but I didn't think they survived until relatively recently. Either LMS or GWR from the 1920s?
SimSig Boss
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 19/06/2011 at 09:48 #16734
clive
Avatar
2738 posts 		Okay, the answer is "rear of signal indications". At certain signals (the starters at St.Pancras until recently were one example) it was common for the loco to stand partly or fully ahead of the signal, with the replacement track circuit being even further ahead and/or last wheel replacement being used.

To quote the relevant rule:

Rear of signal indications are displayed on the reverse side of the signal post from the main aspect, such that they are visible from a train cab which is positioned beyond the signal. Only the indications shown in Table 18 may be displayed. The indications shall be displayed in amber light, and in the Gill Sans Light character font.

OFF - Signal is displaying a proceed aspect
MAIN - (qualifying indication for OFF indication) Main aspect is cleared (where position light aspect also provided)
SUB - (qualifying indication for OFF indication) Position light aspect is cleared
RA - As for standard Right Away Indicator (see Section 5.13)
Alphanumeric route indication in accordance with Section 5.7 - Indication of the route for which the signal is cleared

The use of rear of signal indications shall be avoided, except where there is no practicable means of positioning the signal (in full compliance with GK/RT0035 [Layout of Signals]) to be visible from the cab of the longest type of train which is likely to be berthed at the signal. Rear of signal indications shall not be used where there is any likelihood of confusion of the direction of movement authorised by the “OFF” indication. The rear of signal “OFF” indication shall be displayed whenever the signal displays a proceed aspect (whether main or position light). Where the “OFF” indication would otherwise be ambiguous, it shall be qualified with the additional indication “MAIN” or “SUB”. In addition, any alphanumeric route indications displayed in association with the forward facing signal aspects shall be repeated as rear of signal indications. A rear of signal “RA” indication shall be provided in circumstances where a rear of signal “OFF” indication is required and a forward facing “RA” indicator is provided for the signal.
Log in to reply
Aspect colours? 19/06/2011 at 17:57 #16739
Quizman
Avatar
276 posts 		Peter Bennet said:
Amber Gascoigne?

Correct!
It took us many thinking pints before we go that......
Log in to reply
Back