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| East Lancs Signalling 08/07/2012 at 17:46 #33733 | |
Steamer
3925 posts |
Hi all, Couple of questions about signals on the East Lancs Railway: 1. How are the single lines worked? I reckon Ramsbottom- Rawtenstall is train staff, but I don't know about the others. 2. A signal gantry (two track, each with home+distant) has appeared outside the S&T workshop recently, does anyone know where this has come from/is going to? Thanks. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| East Lancs Signalling 08/07/2012 at 23:30 #33752 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
from what i percieved from my recent visit rawtenstall- ramsbottom is no signaller token (ie token machines at both ends to provide lock-in capability at ramsbottom) rawtenstall - bury appears to be tokenless, probably direction lever working bury - heywood is OTW with staff "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 08/07/2012 at 23:33 by jc92 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 12/07/2012 at 18:17 #33860 | |
Josie
310 posts |
That's correct - there are tokens for both end sections, with direction levers for the Summerseat section between Bury and Ramsbottom. The Broadfield staff (Bury-Heywood) unlocks Hopwood Junction, so needs to be taken there by road when anything comes in off Network Rail. The Irwell Vale section extends to the buffer stops at Rawtenstall and includes the run-round loop, but there is a (normally unused) token machine at Rawtenstall West to allow a second train to go up to Rawtenstall if the first is shut into the bay platform there. Someone did tell me what the gantry was for and I can't quite remember, but I *think* it's going more or less adjacent to where it is now, across the lines from Heywood. I'll try to double-check at some point. Josie (who finally passed out as an ELR guard yesterday!) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 12/07/2012 at 20:00 #33865 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:That's correct - there are tokens for both end sections, with direction levers for the Summerseat section between Bury and Ramsbottom. The Broadfield staff (Bury-Heywood) unlocks Hopwood Junction, so needs to be taken there by road when anything comes in off Network Rail. The Irwell Vale section extends to the buffer stops at Rawtenstall and includes the run-round loop, but there is a (normally unused) token machine at Rawtenstall West to allow a second train to go up to Rawtenstall if the first is shut into the bay platform there.Congratulations on passing out as a guard. I assume ELR is East Lancs? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| East Lancs Signalling 12/07/2012 at 20:44 #33870 | |
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Steamer
3925 posts |
Thanks for all the replies. Josie said: with direction levers for the Summerseat section between Bury and Ramsbottom.How do these work? " said: Someone did tell me what the gantry was for and I can't quite remember, but I *think* it's going more or less adjacent to where it is now, across the lines from Heywood.Now you mention it, I remember the MSTS route has a gantry over the line there. Josie said: Josie (who finally passed out as an ELR guard yesterday!) Congratulations! Just thought of another question, if anyone can help: How does the crossing at Ramsbottom work? From what I saw, two levers close the wicket gates, and obviously the wheel controls the movement of the main gates, but how are those gates locked? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 12/07/2012 at 20:47 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| East Lancs Signalling 12/07/2012 at 20:55 #33872 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
Photos here show four brown levers, the first two in the frame operating the gate lock and gate stops. Quite how that works (with two levers) I don't know, but the (few) wheel-worked crossings that I've 'encountered' just had a single lever, operated normal prior to winding the gates open to rail traffic, and pulled reverse prior to winding the gates closed to rail traffic - the gate stops rising out of the road as the gates themselves approached the end of their travel in each case. Thankfully we don't have to deal with such inconveniences on the GCR! Congratulations to Josie for passing out as a Guard too! Tom Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 12/07/2012 at 21:06 #33873 | |
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Josie
310 posts |
Thanks all :) I'm a little bit shaky on how the direction levers work - I spent a day in Ramsbottom box as part of my training, but it was a while ago, and I haven't been in Bury South - but I think they have to be pulled off before the section signal, and they're interlocked with an indication in each box so that only one can come off at a time. (These haven't always been in place - my route-learning DVD, which is dated 2008, shows a 'start of staff section' plate on the Down Summerseat Section signal, although the voiceover explains that this was removed after filming.) I also can't tell you any more about the level crossing than is shown in those photos, apart from one thing which I think has been added since then - traffic lights for the crossing, controlled by another lever next to the gate ones. (How common are traffic lights controlled by lever frame? I'd be willing to bet 'not very'!) I don't know anything about the gate mechanism though, sorry. I've just noticed that I've actually got the route-learning DVD with me at the moment, and it also has a training film shot in Bury South box, so I'll rewatch it and see if it has any more detail about direction levers! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 10:21 #33884 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:Photos here show four brown levers, the first two in the frame operating the gate lock and gate stops. Quite how that works (with two levers) I don't know, but the (few) wheel-worked crossings that I've 'encountered' just had a single lever, operated normal prior to winding the gates open to rail traffic, and pulled reverse prior to winding the gates closed to rail traffic - the gate stops rising out of the road as the gates themselves approached the end of their travel in each case. Thankfully we don't have to deal with such inconveniences on the GCR! And congratulations from me too. LC gate stops/locks: I don't know owt about this particular installation but the usual way had the gate stops lever holding the gates in position at the end of their travel and the gate lock lever locking the whole caboodle in the open (to railway) position for signalling purposes. So - assuming we're starting with gates open to rail: 1 put back gate lock lever - this locks all signals reading over the Xing at danger; 2 put back gate stop lever - this lowers the gate stops in the roadway, thus releasing the gates, and raises the stops in the rail side; 3 wind the gates across. As they reach the end of their travel they ride over the stops (which are weighted/sprung) and, provided they don't bounce out too quickly for the stops to shut behind them, are now held. The road is now open for traffic. To let a train pass: 1 pull gate stop lever. This lowers the rail side gate stops and activates (but doesn't raise) the stops in the roadway - traffic is probably still passing and raised stops could both damage and be damaged; 2 wind the gates. How quickly you do this depends how strong your nerves are and how robust you're prepared to be with the driver whose pride & joy picked up a dent when he tried to shoot the gates  ;3 as the gates swing, the roadway gate stops will rise, until they are fully raised as the gates ride over them; 4 with the gates now firmly held & the Great God Motor Car fuming merrily, pull the gate lock, pull off for the train & put the kettle on. Direction Lever working: looking at the painting of lever 9 and the track circuits on the single line, I'd have said this is probably more correctly known as Acceptance Lever (a direction lever would be pulled for a train going away from you, not coming towards you). Once reversed, the lever will be subject to any number of locks; if you need to withdraw the release you can return it to the normal backlock ("B" position) at any time but it won't go fully normal until the starter at t'other end is normal (approach locking timed out if needs be) and all single line TCs are clear. Direction levers don't need the same degree of track circuiting and (on the Severn Valley anyway) a Direction Lever section is worked by the Electric Token Regulations "so far as they apply". Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 14:49 #33886 | |
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jc92
3631 posts |
" said:Photos here show four brown levers, the first two in the frame operating the gate lock and gate stops. Quite how that works (with two levers) I don't know, but the (few) wheel-worked crossings that I've 'encountered' just had a single leverthe only instance of two levers i can think of is for when wicket gates have a seperate locking mechanism to the main gates. i think several of the ely-norwich boxes have locks which are direction relevant, ie lock the the gates and release up signals, or lock the gates and release down signals, but these arent wheel worked "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 14:53 #33887 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
Sorry, I meant just one lever in connection with the wheel-worked gates - any levers locking wicket gates being additional (often one for each gate, and not interlocked with signals?). Keith - your description sounds about right, but I think that in this case (and every other that I've come across) the gate stops and gate lock levers stand reverse with the gates open to road traffic. Tom Log in to reply |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 18:17 #33893 | |
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virgin390053
19 posts |
I believe if i remember right from when told the 1st brown Starts the Traffic light to RED. and the 2nd Locks the gates when the 2nd is return to unlock and gates open to full the traffic light auto go to green by a trigger in the gates returning im sure on the 1st brown level is definitively the trigger for the lights as i remember the the story told about he lent on the handle and it triggered the lights and the only way to put them back to green was to shut and reopen the gates. the 2 in the lock position stay like it and the 2 in normal arnt i think. But the Traffic lights and so on are on the 1st brown lever u grip the lock handle thing cant think of the name and it starts the cycle. I only know this from doing the ELR tour i am now based at C&W Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 20:27 #33898 | |
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jrr
95 posts |
We have a crossing at Wansford on the Nene Valley Railway which is worked just as KBarber described: two levers and a wheel for the gates and two levers for the wicket gates.
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| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 20:40 #33899 | |
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virgin390053
19 posts |
it was a year ago now but im 100% sure the 1st controls the traffic lights on that crossing as it has standard highways traffic lights fitted to stop the traffic instead of flashing lights Old woodern gates operated like said with the wheel we wwas told the operation but as alwasy when u need to remember it you cant. 1. Press lever handle to activate traffic light role to red. 2. operate gate wheel 3. lock gates in place 4. signals 5. signals replace to danger once train had passed 6. Gates opened when gates was fully open a trigger would automatically set the traffic lights to green Last edited: 13/07/2012 at 20:47 by virgin390053 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 20:48 #33900 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
From my observations, I think you're correct to suggest that the operation of the first lever starts the sequence on the road traffic signals. However (from a box visit some years ago, when the traffic lights weren't installed), that's neither its main nor original purpose - it does, as Keith suggests, carry out a mechanical function of some sort.
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| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 20:52 #33901 | |
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virgin390053
19 posts |
The 1st is that operation the gates on the wheel but for the life of me cant think what the 2nd one is and the gates trigger the lights bk to green your best bet to find out is go on one of the ELR tours that are held everymonth you go into the signal box and told about it 
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| East Lancs Signalling 13/07/2012 at 20:58 #33902 | |
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awbancroft
1 posts |
Hello, The Direction Lever's (as they are known) should actually be called acceptance levers. This operates for the Up and Down Summerseat Section (the line between Bury and Ramsbottom) which is fully track circuited throughout. When either box wishes to send a train to the other the block bell is used. Starting with Call Attention (1), which is repeated by the other box. The box wish wishes to send the train will use the bell code for the correct class of train e.g. 3-1 (Is line clear for Standard Passenger Train of less than 7 units). If the box in advance can accept the train, they reverse their direction lever. The interlocking (among other things) checks whether any track circuits are occupied, checks whether the overlap of the Outer Home signal is clear, checks whether the train that last passed through the section occupied then released the track circuits in the correct order, and that nothing has been signalled into the section from the box in advance or that the other direction lever has been reversed. If the interlocking is satisfied, the direction lever can be fully reversed and the direction of movement either 'Up' or 'Down' is shown above the direction lever in both boxes. 'Free' is shown on the indicator above the section signal of the box in rear. When the signalman see's the 'Free' indication and the correct direction of travel (Up or Down), he will expect the box in advance to then repeat the train description. The box in advance repeats the train description, 3-1. Andy Trainee Signalman at East Lancs Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Steamer, Josie, virgin390053 |
| East Lancs Signalling 26/07/2012 at 00:40 #34347 | |
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virgin390053
19 posts |
Nice one Andy who better to clear it up Might see you around one day. Hope you stick at it.
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| East Lancs Signalling 25/06/2013 at 16:10 #46042 | |
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Josie
310 posts |
" said:A signal gantry (two track, each with home+distant) has appeared outside the S&T workshop recently, does anyone know where this has come from/is going to?Resurrecting this thread for an update: the gantry is now in place, and the signals in question are the Up Main Advance Starting signal and the Down Main Up Advance Starting signal. The distant signals apply to the Up Broadfield Section signal, a new colour light signal on the other side of the Metrolink Intersection Bridge. The platform starters at Bury Bolton Street, which previously read to the Up direction stop board at Green Lane level crossing, will now read only as far as the advance starters on the new gantry. The advance starters will read to the new section signal, and the section signal will read to the stop board. I'm not clear on whether or not these signals have been commissioned yet, as I've not worked a train over that route for a couple of months, and I've seen conflicting information about start dates. The latest date I've seen given is 29 June, however, so if they're not in use yet they ought to be by this weekend. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |