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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 13:03 #35249 | |
Dick
386 posts |
Just a thought. It is currently possible in Simsig to authorise a train to pass a signal at danger by right clicking it in the train list. Surely in reality, it would not be possible to authorise until the driver called in as the signaller cannot contact the driver. Whilst the ability to watch a train come to a stand at a track circuit failure in the train list and authorise him past immediately helps to keep the job running in Simsig, I guess it shouldn't be possible to do so.
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 13:30 #35250 | |
Sacro
1171 posts |
There's NRN (National Radio Network) and GSM-R (Global System for Mobile Communications - Railway), both of which can be used whilst the train is moving (though the driver might not be allowed to answer until he's stationary)
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 14:46 #35253 | |
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Dick
386 posts |
Hmm, presumably the signaller wouldn't be able to use GSM-R as he wouldn't know what number to call. I know nothing about NRN, is it just a broadcast system or can calls be made to discrete trains? If the former, I doubt whether it would be used due to the possibility of being misinterpreted by the wrong train. If the latter, I guess that could be possible.
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 14:53 #35255 | |
jc92
3630 posts |
i tend to think of F2 as the hand of god window. just becuase you can, doesnt mean you have to. i never use the function in question, but its always there should you need it. you cant magically make a trains length shorten in real life, but sometimes the hand of god comes into it
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 15:26 #35258 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
GSM-R could be used by the driver to contact the controlling Signaller - who would also know from his display exactly where the train was. It is supposedly a very good system which is currently becoming operational. From what I hear from Signallers they seem to like it. NRN is a very old system, and any communication from a Signaller to a Driver has to go via Route Control, so it would not generally be used to convey a message, and in any case all that message would be is "Driver **** please contact Signalbox X" and the Signaller himself would convey the message when contacted directly by the driver. NRN can be used to send out an All Trains Stop signal, but again this has to be done via Route Control, whereas the GSM-R version can be broadcast directly from the Signalbox concerned. Whether or not a Driver chooses to "answer" a call whilst moving is down to him. Some companies allow it, some frown on it and some drivers have different interpretations to others too. Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 15:39 #35260 | |
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GB
64 posts |
The signaller has the means via CSR or GSMR or in some cases NRN to call the driver if he so wishes.
Last edited: 29/08/2012 at 16:03 by GB Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 16:28 #35265 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Just a thought. It is currently possible in Simsig to authorise a train to pass a signal at danger by right clicking it in the train list. Surely in reality, it would not be possible to authorise until the driver called in as the signaller cannot contact the driver. Whilst the ability to watch a train come to a stand at a track circuit failure in the train list and authorise him past immediately helps to keep the job running in Simsig, I guess it shouldn't be possible to do so.Easy way to keep yourself happy - ignore the option and wait for him to phone in! Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 16:34 #35266 | |
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Dick
386 posts |
But the temptation to cheat is too great. :evil:
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 16:45 #35267 | |
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GB
64 posts |
Its not cheating though. As already mentioned, signallers have the means to communicate to specific drivers on specific trains pretty much anytime they need to. You also need to remember that since the rule change a while ago, drivers are required to phone in to the signaller as soon as they are at a stand at red unless they can see an obvious reason for being held. This is not represented in SimSig so although your reversing the roles, the status quo in respect of delays and timings remain the same. Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 17:41 #35269 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
If it is degraded working (ie a failure) then by "cheating" as you put it, you could simply be simulating the presence of a Handsignaller.
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 18:06 #35270 | |
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Dick
386 posts |
I will continue with a clear conscience 
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 20:44 #35276 | |
lazzer
605 posts |
In defence of the original concern, I was driving along in my train the other day when the GSM-R perked up with the message which went something along the lines of, "driver of 1xxx, please bring your train to a stand at signal Pxx and contact the controlling signaller." (For anyone interested, the signal is the one protecting the Aish emergency crossovers in the up direction west of Totnes.) So I stopped at the signal (it was red anyway), pressed the SG button (standing at signal), and on being put through to the signaller, he authorised me to pass the signal at danger. Now he could have sent that message out while I was on the move and authorised me to pass without me having called him first, but I would like to think that the "correct" procedure is for the signaller to stop me AT the signal and then get ME to call HIM to be authorised to pass it. I would find it VERY strange to be authorised to pass a signal at danger while my train was moving, and I have NEVER experienced it before with the NRN. So I'm with Dick - I always wait for a call from the driver. EDIT: I would also say that I have never been contacted by the signaller whilst at a stand at a signal. It's always me who has to call in first. I assume this is the norm country-wide? Last edited: 29/08/2012 at 20:48 by lazzer Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 21:13 #35277 | |
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jc92
3630 posts |
regarding a handsignaller, doesnt he have to call up to authorise a train past danger anyway?
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 22:31 #35279 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
Although a Signaller can send any text message to a driver he sees fit, I would imagine that it would not be allowed to authorise a signal to be passed at danger in this way, the clear preference being for a voice communication. I am not sure that the GSM-R system allows a Signaller to "call" a driver in the traditional sense, I was under the impression that the Signaller requests the Driver calls in, like mentioned above with UM230 and Plymouth Panel at Aish Crossovers. I have seen Signallers call an SPT, but more often than not the Driver will not hear the ringer from within the cab. They are usually instructed to "contact me again in x minutes" like in SimSig. Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 22:32 #35280 | |
Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:regarding a handsignaller, doesnt he have to call up to authorise a train past danger anyway?Wouldn't a handsignaller call as soon as the train stops though, whereas the SimSig driver will always wait 2 minutes at a red signal? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 22:35 #35281 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
Handsignallers will call as soon as they see the train come into view normally, although they are not allowed to authorise trains to pass signals at danger any more in normal circumstances (TBW and SLW are different), only instruct the driver to get on the phone.
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 22:35 #35282 | |
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jc92
3630 posts |
true, although it would still be incoming rather than outgoing
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 29/08/2012 at 22:36 #35283 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
Indeed.
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| Authorising passing signal at danger 30/08/2012 at 00:44 #35290 | |
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MrBitsy
121 posts |
GSM-R has been operational at West Hampstead for several months and it is well liked by all. Until GSM-R went live, East Midlands trains could only be contacted by SPT. FCC trains have had CSR radio ever since I started at West Hampstead in 2007. All East Midlands trains are now fitted with GSM-R and some freights are also fitted. FCC continue to use CSR radio, so we have both systems in operation. Both CSR and GSM-R allow the driver to report 'standing at signal' and the signaller can reply with 'wait at signal'. To contact a train on GSM-R we can either click the trains entry in the list then a handset button, or select the 'dial' tab, enter the head code and press the handset icon. When in the dial tab, we can also request the driver contacts signaller. we also have the option to select 'urgent' or 'emergency' call. A vfery nice function of GSM-R is the emergency call. I was recently was contacted by a freight driver to report a bull in the 4 foot on the down fast at Sharnbrook junction. Pressing the emergency button brings up icons for different sections on the panel. I selected the Sharnbrook area. All trains will get a message to stop their trains. At the same time, a conference call is automatically opened with drivers, Control and neighbouring boxes, in my case Kettering (Leicester) workstation - very nice indeed having all relevant parties together immediately! In the core section from Dock Junction to Farringdon we now have the POSA signal - pass on sight authority. For example, a single track circuit failure will need the signaller to contact the driver to inform him of the failure. Rather than passing a signal at danger he will be told to obey the POSA signal then obey all others. If there is a multi section track circuit failure, the driver can be told to obey 'X' POSA signals. Speeds things up a bit :-) TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford Last edited: 30/08/2012 at 00:50 by MrBitsy Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Stephen Fulcher, Josie, Dick, MJD |
| Authorising passing signal at danger 30/08/2012 at 23:49 #35309 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
At Victoria, if needing to talk trains past a red, it is possible to phone a driver on the CSR just before they stop, and once they have we can give them the instructions required to get past. If the train is about to stop (at a signal, station, etc), then many drivers will answer the CSR call but not speak until they are at a stand. But if they are proceeding normally most drivers will answer the CSR and talk to the signaller whilst on the move. We would never talk past a signal like this, but this is very useful for passing other messages when trying to avoid delays. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dick |