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| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 08/10/2012 at 17:54 #36074 | |
jc92
3629 posts 
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I have uploaded this for moderator approval. there will be a further release in the near future to add a SWB (station working book) to aid with regulation. This timetable has been fully tested several times, but inevitably errors/ommissions and spelling errors will creep in so please do upload them to this thread. Timetable notes: This timetable has been compiled and researched to simulate Euston PSB between May 1980 and 1981. It is designed be run in 1980s mode and will randomly select a different weekday to be played each time. The timetable has been produced from the following documents: WTT Section CC Mandatory trains Euston - Willesden May 1980-1981 WTT Section CB Pass. & parcels LMR london division 1982-1983 WTT Section CR Camden Jcn - Crewe Freight trains 1984-1985 Special traffic notice W1 1st November - 7th November 1980 Trips and pilot workings were taken from suitable trip notices The method of train working, shunts, locomotive movements and other arrangements was researched by discussion with ex euston signalmen, ex railwayman from the area, and those that were there to witness them. Traction Classes 81-87 were all in use in 1980. typically at euston class 81s, 82s and 83s were used on ECS ferrying movements, although could also be seen working some service trains. the Class 87s were the flagship of the west coast fleet, and being Air brake only, would be seen working the Premier Anglo scottish, Liverpool and manchester services, all worked by Mk3 stock. Class 86s could be seen working all types of service, including the Vac brake only Manchester Pullmans services. DVTs hadnt yet hit the drawing board, so all services will change locos. Loco hauled stock consisted of the relatively new Mk3 stock, working the Premier west coast services, with secondary locations such as Blackpool, holyhead, birmingham, wolverhampton and shrewsbury being served by Mk2 stock. Sleeper services were still worked by All Mk1 Stock. Certain ECS and Parcels workings were handled by diesels, usually Class 25s or 40s. Inner suburban services to Bletchley, Hemel Hempstead and Birmingham were served exclusively by the Class 310 (AM10) four car units. The watford Jcn - Croxley green, Euston and broad St. services were handled by the 3 car Cl.501 "Jail" units, based loosely on the 2EPB design of Southern EMUs. the Pilots at Euston were all Willesden based Cl.08s which outstabled for the week. Freightliner services over the NLL are all worked by Cl.47s, having replaced pairs of ACs at Willesden. most other workings including the Kings Cross - Tring PCAs are worked by single and Paired Class 25s. Light loco movements Light loco stabling was arranged on the fly, I have therefore provided appropriate movements. some locos will drop out to the backing out roads, others will sit in the U.C.S. On occasions spare locos will use the holding siding, located in the parecel dock. most will leave the station as soon as their train has departed, but can be regulated as required. locos will avoid the neck at times, and move via park st. tunnels. as allocation of AC locos varied considerably, no specific class has been stated. Euston Down Carriage Shed the DCS had a shunter (0T09) permanently assigned to shunt and assemble stock all day and all night. this was before fixed formations existed, each train potentially having a different formation. the DCS is therefore a busy location throughout the day. Due to the Limitations currently in the sim regarding having available stock in the shed, unless stated in the TT description, all trains should use sidings 1-9. Full sets entering or leaving the DCS, will be timetabled to reverse at park street and should be routed to L103 limit of shunt Camden Carriage sidings This also has a pilot assigned (0T11), and stores passenger and parcels stock. occasional shunts will need to come out to camden south Jcn. Camden is also where the carriage washer is located, and so sees frequent ECS movements in and out for washing. Euston Up Carriage shed during the day, a number of spare EMUs which see use only in the peak hours are stored here. APT-P the Class 370 APT-P is in use in the timetable. there are WTT workings which form passenger carrying services and consists of a full 14 coach set, so beware replatforming these services. there are also test workings from the special traffic notice, utilising a half set for testing of systems. ECS movements. these have been timetabled as flexibly as possible, allowing the signalman to route as required via fast/slow lines, or via the UECL and up engine lines, or BORs. certain movments will require routing a specific way due to operational requirements. Watford DC Headcodes 2B55 is a generic code for every service between euston and watford. this means there will be several 2B55s in sim at a time. as they all use the same route, this shouldnt cause too many problems in needing to view their timetables. 2B66 is the headcode for watford - broad st services which run via primrose hill and camden road Jcn. Acknowledgements Thanks go to Pascal Nadin (58050) for his support, and for providing paperwork and advice throughout. Also to keith Barber (Kbarber) for sharing his Intimate knowledge of the north london rail scene, and for putting up with my constant questioning. A special mention must go to John Gallon(Postal) for taking the raw timetable, adding the days of the week rules, refining the rules on the sim, and basically making the complicated bits work. Joe Chandler (JC92) "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: John, indian_railways_fan, guidomcc, Splodge, BarryM, paul87101, officer dibble, Underwood, norman B, BR Jack, whatlep, ozrail |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 09/10/2012 at 21:58 #36188 | |
paul87101
66 posts |
Thanks, sounds like you`ve put a lot of work into it, can`t wait, hope it gets approved soon.....
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| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 09/10/2012 at 23:02 #36192 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
" said:Thanks, sounds like you`ve put a lot of work into it, can`t wait, hope it gets approved soon.....Now approved/uploaded - AG I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: paul87101 |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 10/10/2012 at 05:30 #36193 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Hello Joe, Re 5F01S; I thought it was not permissible for a train to back out of Camden Carriage Sidings? Keep up the good work. Regards Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 10/10/2012 at 11:19 #36207 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:Hello Joe,the "real" 5F01 runs before midnight and does in fact run round in the BORS before propelling into euston. 5F01S is a morning seed service which is improvised. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: officer dibble, BarryM |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 10/10/2012 at 15:42 #36216 | |
postal
5190 posts
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If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 11/10/2012 at 15:10 by postal Reason: Typo UCS entered in error for DCS Log in to reply The following users said thank you: BarryM, ozrail |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 11/10/2012 at 09:50 #36239 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
Very entertaining though, making use of the BOR to shunt stock and other LE/LD moves, makes me wish I was born earlier than the late 80's to see this in reality! Anyone know what the 'Backing Out Road' was originally named for? Does it mean 'Backing Out' from or to Euston, or both? Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 11/10/2012 at 18:52 #36286 | |
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paul87101
66 posts |
Hi Joe Really enjoying the timetable, very interesting and well researched  Slight bug I think. 0a04-1n will not appear on Mondays because 0A03 doesn`t run? Thanks Paul Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 11/10/2012 at 20:35 #36298 | |
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postal
5190 posts
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Paul Thanks for the notification - definitely one that slipped below the radar. The fix is: 1) 0A06 Delete Park St Tunnels and Parcels Dock; add Up Carriage Sidings. This is an MO working so will fill the gap. 2) 0A04-1N to be split to 3 separate workings: a) 0A04-1MO Enter Up Carriage Shed, terminate Up Carriage Shed Neck, next working 0A04-1N. b) 0A04-1MX exactly as 0A04-1MO. c) 0A04-1N No entry point, first location Up Carriage Shed Neck. 3) Create rule that 0A04-1MO must appear 2 minutes after 0A06 leaves the area. 4) Edit rule "0A04-1N must appear 2 minutes after 0A03 leaves the area" to "0A04-1MX must appear 2 minutes after 0A03 leaves the area". This will leave a light engine sitting in the Up Carriage Shed Neck for a long time MO but the other LEs in and out of there at that time are MX workings. I'll update the TT from the downloads area and send it to Joe for his OK and re-submission. Apologies for the error. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: paul87101, ozrail |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 11/10/2012 at 22:12 #36314 | |
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paul87101
66 posts |
Thanks for the fix. Another small item: My 5A04-1 was delayed so 0a04-2 appeared late correctly and formed 0F14 for DCS However 5F14 had long left DCS and was in Euston. I guess you need a rule: 5F14 must appear 5 mins after 0F14 leaves area. Paul Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 11/10/2012 at 22:20 #36316 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:Thanks for the fix.Corrected, thanks for that. I will rerelease the timetable when any other errors have been raised and corrected. Keep them coming! "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 04:42 #36319 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.John, could you not still run around as 5F01 comes out of Camden CS? Or am I missing something? Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 09:13 #36325 | |
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kbarber
1711 posts |
" said:Very entertaining though, making use of the BOR to shunt stock and other LE/LD moves, makes me wish I was born earlier than the late 80's to see this in reality! The Sectional Appendix instructions suggest both; there were fairly full instructions relating to both movements. I think it's true to say that, back in steam days (a long time before my time, before anyone gets cheeky  ) many trains would be made up in Port Arthur, while some would be dragged up from Willesden (having been made up in the sidings at the south end of the Carriage Shed). In either case they'd be left on a BOR and the train engine would then drop down from Camden Shed (where Camden CS now are) to hook on, then just drop into the station. In 1969 a brake vehicle (ie one fitted with a brake valve) was required to be the leading vehicle going into the station; by 1980 it was permitted to have up to 2 vehicles ahead of the brake vehicle. (The 1969 SA includes provision for gravitating a train from the BORs into the station!) There was a plunger by the signals reading out of the BORs; when the signal was cleared the shunter pressed the plunger, which illuminated an idicator to the driver to start propelling. Much the same continued to happen into the 1980s, even after trains had largely become fixed-formation sets, although the increasing number of in-platform turnrounds meant it was less frequent. I didn't see it happen that often, but when it did I can confirm it was done with some brio; I guess the driver knew more-or-less where he needed to end up and the shunter knew when & how hard he needed to brake, so the train would roll in pretty quickly (kept the bobby happy too, clearing the throat more quickly).Although propelling out is the first set of instructions, I somehow get the impression it may have been less frequent. There are a lot of instructions about securing the train in the BOR. If anybody wants, I'll try & scan in the relevant pages from the two SAs. Add them to Clive's "Instructions to Signalmen" and you begin to get an idea of what it was really like; I can assure you, you don't need lots of failures & such to keep life interesting! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 10:02 #36336 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:" said:5F01S is a seed. ie it shouldnt really run. it is seeded in to represent a late running 5F01 at 00:00 where the train loco has already run round and propelled the stock into P14 and is waiting to run off to the H.S. the original 5F01S didnt even have a train loco, i just seeded a set of Mk1s into P14.If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.John, could you not still run around as 5F01 comes out of Camden CS? Or am I missing something? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 13:25 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 19:25 #36383 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:" said:So to have it run, you throw the rules and regulations out the window." said:5F01S is a seed. ie it shouldnt really run. it is seeded in to represent a late running 5F01 at 00:00 where the train loco has already run round and propelled the stock into P14 and is waiting to run off to the H.S. the original 5F01S didnt even have a train loco, i just seeded a set of Mk1s into P14.If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.John, could you not still run around as 5F01 comes out of Camden CS? Or am I missing something? Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 19:37 #36384 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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" said:" said:i dont intend on altering it. if Euston supported seeding, i would have just seeded the Mk1s into P14 at 00:00. if it really causes that much concern you could alter it to come out of the DCS. the other issue is running round, propelling into the station and uncoupling before 3F01 shunts at 00:30. ive never seen comments about loaded passenger trains seeding out of goods yards etc" said:So to have it run, you throw the rules and regulations out the window." said:5F01S is a seed. ie it shouldnt really run. it is seeded in to represent a late running 5F01 at 00:00 where the train loco has already run round and propelled the stock into P14 and is waiting to run off to the H.S. the original 5F01S didnt even have a train loco, i just seeded a set of Mk1s into P14.If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.John, could you not still run around as 5F01 comes out of Camden CS? Or am I missing something? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 19:39 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 20:00 #36386 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
I had 5T09-3 not stop and detach a loco in the Backing Out Roads as timetabled, but call up red at the up end of BOR 1. I thought it might need more room to shunt forward slightly, so I gave it a route into platform 13 to let it do this. It then went into platform 13, ran up to the buffers and then ran out of valid track. Are the Backing Out Roads an accepted location do have divide/joins?
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| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 20:02 #36387 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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5T09 splitting and shunting worked fine in testing. i had always used BORs 3 and 4 which are the longest and will hold a full length train. has anyone else had an issue with this at all? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 20:03 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 20:28 #36388 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:" said:It's not about seeding provided it is done according to permitted rules for the location. All I am referring to is the propelling out of Camden CS to the back out roads is not permitted." said:i dont intend on altering it. if Euston supported seeding, i would have just seeded the Mk1s into P14 at 00:00. if it really causes that much concern you could alter it to come out of the DCS. the other issue is running round, propelling into the station and uncoupling before 3F01 shunts at 00:30. ive never seen comments about loaded passenger trains seeding out of goods yards etc" said:So to have it run, you throw the rules and regulations out the window." said:5F01S is a seed. ie it shouldnt really run. it is seeded in to represent a late running 5F01 at 00:00 where the train loco has already run round and propelled the stock into P14 and is waiting to run off to the H.S. the original 5F01S didnt even have a train loco, i just seeded a set of Mk1s into P14.If you run the TT on far enough you get the chance to put the real 5F01 through the BOR and do the run-round. The seed 5F01 was tried out of the DCS but we ran into problems because the sim keeps book on the amount of stock in the sidings and we ran out of stock later in the day. There have been a lot of changes since then, so it may now be possible to make it enter from the DCS but it hasn't been tried.John, could you not still run around as 5F01 comes out of Camden CS? Or am I missing something? Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 20:58 by BarryM Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 21:12 #36397 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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5F01 was originally 5Z01 which was 5Mk1s which "coasted" into euston from 00:00. this was later altered to include the i/c loco detaching, simply to add an extra movement, assuming the previous movements had already taken place. i feel that no rules have been broken as 5F01 never propels from camden C.S. a seed service to get stock into P14 does. Im sorry that you've had to stop the TT at such an early point, for such a minor point rather than enjoy the rest. but i shall not be altering it. to my minds eye. the seed services are simply a way of getting stock from overnight berths into platforms. theye are no specific formation or consist, nor is 5F01S. 5F01S is a block which moves into P14 and forms a set of Mk1s and an AC loco which are already there. i feel that rules need not apply to seed services as that is all they are. If any other services have been incorrectly propelled, then yes, i will happily alter them as i have made a mistake. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 21:14 #36398 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
" said:5T09 splitting and shunting worked fine in testing. i had always used BORs 3 and 4 which are the longest and will hold a full length train.That might be the issue then; perhaps 'platforming' some of the services that use the BOR is needed? What is your strategy when putting things into the BORs? I use 4 for trains for the parcels dock, 2 and 1 for trains into the station and 3 for everything else. I guess I need to rethink. Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 21:20 #36399 | |
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jc92
3629 posts
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i always use 3 for stock for the high numbered platforms. 4 as a secondary for these and also for P.D trains. 1 and 2 are for the low numbered platforms. I have left platforming out to try and make it a bit more challenging, requiring planning and forethought. Guidomcc if you find it happens even when using BORs 3 or 4 please send me a save across just before it happens. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 21:22 #36401 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
Sure, thanks :) Edited to add: I have saves of 0344 and 0648, and 5T09-3 enteres 0614. :dry: I might just start a game at 0614 and experiment Edited further to add: It will only not work when the train goes through BOR 1. All of the others are okay. (I had incorrectly assumed the train was heading for Euston.) Saved game attached. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 21:31 by guidomcc Reason: Adding file Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 22:16 #36402 | |
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postal
5190 posts
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Clive's Euston manual includes the individual lengths of the 4 BORs which may have been helpful information in this case.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| 1980/81 Weekdays timetable 12/10/2012 at 23:02 #36405 | |
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postal
5190 posts
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" said:So to have it run, you throw the rules and regulations out the window.Barry A lot of TTs for a lot of sims have similar problems. You have a choice when writing the start of a TT; should you go for strict observance of the rules and regulation when trying to get trains which are in mid-journey into the sim with the consequence that you may have trains which should appear in the sim but do not as there is no way within the rules and regulations to find an entry point for them before they are scheduled to have left the sim? This may also mean that next workings do not appear and you have lost a number of trains and destroyed the integrity of the sim in terms of the signaller's workload. Alternatively, do you accept some contraventions of the rules and regulations to parachute trains into the sim somewhere near their expected location and time in order to replicate the signaller's task as soon as possible within the timescale of the sim? 5F01S probably could be TT'd to enter from the DCS, run round in the BOR and the go into P1 at getting on for 00:30. This is realistic in terms of obeying the rules and regulations but less realistic in terms of a TT replicating a day's operation. You pays your money and you takes your choice and in this case the choice of the TT writer is that a better replication of the day's operation over-rides rules and regulations as the opening stages are set up. You might wish to make another choice and are at liberty to edit the TT as you wish. However, I suspect that you might then consider any comments that to run the sim you have to throw the WTT out of the window a little bit of an over-reaction. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 12/10/2012 at 23:04 by postal Log in to reply |