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| Missing things. 17/11/2012 at 21:28 #37596 | |
welshdragon
315 posts |
While i applaud Karl on releasing this sim. I do wish to express publicly my disappointment at a 'half baked' sim that is full of errors (some of which are on Mantis, I will repeat them so they are known publicly): * There are several Telephone Crossings that are missing from the sim. * The Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog branch, while nice, is not implemented correctly - it is a Token system, and not AB, IMHO this adds work for the signaller at Llandudno Junction and Llanrwst North (something one of the other developers could assist with maybe?) * The Llanfairpwll text is distracting, and shouldn't really be there, although information on the name and the pronounciation could be added to the User Manual/Wiki. * Llanfairpwll Crossing is, as per real life, a Slot released by the signaller at Bangor, again, maybe another developer can look at this? Sorry for these comments, I like the sim, but it's missing things that are critical to the operation of the sim. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: DriverCurran, JamesN |
| Missing things. 17/11/2012 at 23:37 #37605 | |
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greatkingrat
74 posts |
What a rude post. Frankly if those are the only things you can find to moan about it must be a very good sim. It is quite normal for Sims to miss out some minor crossings that are not controlled by the signaller, particularly when there are a lot of them and I hardly think including the full name of a station is a major issue.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: guidomcc, TimTamToe, headshot119, Sam Tugwell, Stephen Fulcher, derbybest, MikeW |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 00:04 #37606 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
" said:What a rude post. Frankly if those are the only things you can find to moan about it must be a very good sim. It is quite normal for Sims to miss out some minor crossings that are not controlled by the signaller, particularly when there are a lot of them and I hardly think including the full name of a station is a major issue.Ditto, it was misleading to me at the 'full of errors' as I thought maybe it is unusable at the moment, but after all that... Westbury is missing phone crossings but I haven't mentioned them until some years later when I simply asked if they were going to be added or not (I ain't fussed if they are or not) but didn't put it down as a half made simulation. As for the name of Llanfairpwll, not distracting to me, I did have a giggle when I saw it mainly as I least expected it :lol: Thank you VERY much Karl, my bedtime is now cancelled while I have a spin on the boxes! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: headshot119, TimTamToe |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 00:20 #37607 | |
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TimTamToe
656 posts |
" said:" said:Ditto DittoWhat a rude post. Frankly if those are the only things you can find to moan about it must be a very good sim. It is quite normal for Sims to miss out some minor crossings that are not controlled by the signaller, particularly when there are a lot of them and I hardly think including the full name of a station is a major issue.Ditto, it was misleading to me at the 'full of errors' as I thought maybe it is unusable at the moment, but after all that... Thank you very much Karl for what are two great sims (this and Llangollen) especially as they are areas I know that I visit when seeing the family. I would hardly say missing a few telephone crossings is detrimental and the fact that the station is called (although also abbreviated too) llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (and also that I can say it - depending on alcohol consumption) is hardly distracting but accurate. Also regarding WelshDragon's remark about the The Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog branch; from the manual I quote "Llandudno Junction to Llanrwst - The section from Llandudno Junction to Llanrwst Signal Box (situated at North Llanrwst Station) is controlled in real life by Electric Train Token, but in SimSig North Wales Coast by a modified version of the Absolute Block system. The One Train Working section between North Llanrwst and Blaenau Ffestiniog is controlled in reality by electric train token with shut in facilities at Blaenau Ffestiniog. This token releases the Two Ground Frames at Blaenau Ffestiniog to allow access to the loop. In SimSig, this is simulated as a one-train working section, with certain modifications to cater for the token system in reality. To send a train from Llanrwst Signal Box to Blaenau Ffestiniog, all that is required is the line clear to the stop blocks with both ground frames normal." Diolch Karl (thank you) Last edited: 18/11/2012 at 00:47 by TimTamToe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: headshot119, rodney30 |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 10:24 #37620 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
just to add to the existing comments, a couple of minor issues were discovered at the meet, im not sure if the released sim has accounted for them, but karl has made (IMO) the correct decision to release the sim in a usable state, but with minor issues, at least we do now have the sim to play and enjoy, and none of the issues welshdragon states detract too largely from the gameplay, after all, those crossings can always wait til an update is produced. regardling the baenau token sections, i never saw a post from you complaining that crediton box on exeter sim didnt have the correct method of working, nor did i see a post complaining that maltby colliery works tokenless block not absolute block to worksop. as for the pronunciation of llanfair P.G. (to steal alan gilchrists reponse, hope he doesnt mind) please contact the welsh assembly to log a complaint. i think it adds a nice eccentricity to the sim, like shunter noel at worksop, or a track circuit failure near kurts house on trent. it also adds a lighter tone to the sim. i would like to thank karl and his testing team for a great, long awaited sim, that has exceeded my personal expectations, and has been produced in only 6 months to a high quality standard. Joe "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: mfloyd, Stephen Fulcher, headshot119 |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 10:36 #37623 | |
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jc92
3631 posts |
one thing i would say, partially in welshdragons defence, is tyn-i-morfa crossing is missing which has an interaction to the signaller at talacre and prestatyn, but i made karl aware of this yesterday. i beleive he was already aware anyway. the other thing is ty croes is "missing" signals, but as it has no interface to valley or gaerwen boxes, it doesnt detract too much from the sim anyway! i quite like llanfair PG box being controlled by the bangor signalman, even if only becuase i was able to enjoy watching chris and clive curse its lack of autoraise everytime they forgot about it 
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 12:29 #37636 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
Seems there are two user camps - the camp that demands it NOW warts and all and the camp that doesn't not want it unless its perfect : both have stampy feet. Hey ho. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 18/11/2012 at 20:47 by Peter Bennet Reason: typo Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Stephen Fulcher, JamesN, postal, officer dibble, Signalhunter, welshdragon, guidomcc, AndyG, birchy74 |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 13:10 #37643 | |
Steamer
3925 posts 
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Well done Karl on an excellent simulation, nice to have a good length of busy AB mainline. For those who really want to know how to pronounce the name, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.co.uk has everything you need to know. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 18/11/2012 at 13:11 by Steamer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 13:13 #37644 | |
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JamesN
1577 posts |
I think Mark made some valid points, just perhaps the way he phrased them left somethings to be desired! The sim is commendable, and if the time frame quoted to me by my fellow testers is accurate then it has been produced in an impressive timescale. Yes part of me says that the sim should have spent more time in Development to iron out some of the issues encountered and ensure the accuracy of the sim, but we have a sim. As Peter says there are some people who just want to 'play' regardless and this sim caters for those people. I'm sure there will be an update along eventually that caters for those of us who prefer perfection Log in to reply The following users said thank you: welshdragon, onlydjw, DriverCurran, officer dibble, Signalhunter |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 19:59 #37670 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
Ok, I'll accept, my tone was a little off, but I have come to expect sims to a high (!) standard, and while I appreciate Karl's done a good job, maybe a little bit more time and patience may have resulted in an even better sim being fully ready by Christmas, as it stands, the sim as a whole has good points and bad points: those of you will note that some trains telephone asking permission to depart P1 at Llandudno Jn when they should really TRTS, there are a few spelling mistakes (but we all make them). I like the way the AB works, although the way it works is buggy (you can accept a train even if the box in rear hasn't offered you a train). I will happily work with Karl and any and all timetable developers to ensure North Wales Coast is enjoyed by many. I even have a few more Scenario ideas I'd like to run past Karl.... :evil: Log in to reply |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 20:55 #37678 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2028 posts
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You can accept a train that was never offered in reality - there is nothing stopping any Signaller from pegging up Line Clear at any time the block is at normal in any signal box. If I may say so, perhaps it would not hurt to ask Karl why he dud something rather than start a public post slagging him and his simulation off would not go amiss here. Log in to reply |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 20:59 #37679 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
In no way am I "slagging" Karl off, my last post didn't take that tone, I was saying how things seemed different to how I know signalling to work. Maybe it might be your turn to apologise for your tone, I was trying to be nice... something this community (certainly on the forums) is lacking these days...
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| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 21:11 #37680 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2028 posts
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Perhaps I worded my post badly. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people do not quite understand that in general a signalling system will do a lot more in practice than the rules technically allow the signalmen to do with it, and the further back in time you go the more "flexible" the system itself is. As someone with significant S&T experience it astounds me at times reading forums (not just this one) what people conclude is wrong, or in SimSig cases buggy, which is actually working in exactly the way it is designed. In the case of absolute block, a signalman can peg up line clear as long as certain fixed conditions are met - generally the line being clear to the clearing point, the home signal and distant being at danger (and lit if a colour light) and any relevant track circuits clear. The signalman having recieved an offer not being one of those conditions in any system I have ever seen. Generally signalmen will wait until a train has been offered to give line clear, especially on quiet lines, but I have been in quite a few signalboxes where they have been working "slack" for one reason or another and have just accepted the train. In the case of NWC, the ability to do so is not a bug - any AB system in the country will allow that to be done, just generally signalmen do not do it. Log in to reply |
| Missing things. 18/11/2012 at 22:02 #37683 | |
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Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
Probably best to calm down a bit here, given you have the ability to post bugs direct to the bug board it's difficult to see the point of your first post other than what it says on the tin - you explicitly wished to make your criticisms public. " said: While i applaud Karl on releasing this sim. I do wish to express publicly my disappointment at a 'half baked' sim that is full of errors (some of which are on Mantis, I will repeat them so they are known publicly):Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 18/11/2012 at 22:02 by Peter Bennet Reason: typo Log in to reply |
| Missing things. 19/11/2012 at 08:42 #37692 | |
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Colourlight
117 posts |
Welshdragon has now written two posts and in both of them he has shown that he has not even bothered to read the manual properly if at all! His first blunder has already been commented on and the second was to say that the abilty to accept a train without it being offered is a bug. In fact, if he had read the manual he would have known the the absolute block in North Wales was designed to accept a train without one being offered. I don,t know why it was designed that way but I have worked absolute block in a "real" signalbox and it is possible to accept a train without it being offered simply by turning the "switch" (for want of a better word) to give a line clear to the box in rear. In practice it is quite usual for a signaller to do this when he is occupied with something else, such as going to the toilet. And as for Welshdragon,s "half baked" comment I can only conclude that he was playing a different North Wales sim to the one I was playing last night. I found that Absolute Block in Noth Wales was a pretty good representation of the real thing.
Last edited: 19/11/2012 at 08:50 by Colourlight Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Missing things. 19/11/2012 at 10:05 #37697 | |
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Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
Nothing much more to be said on this I think Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: officer dibble, naasxing, postal, y10g9 |