Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT")

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 20/11/2012 at 22:15 #37836
Danny252
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Having been completely taken in by NWC, I'm trying to scrape together a pleasingly old (Summer 1976) TT for the sim, using the wonderful 2D53.co.uk. However, that site only provides loco information for trip workings, and timing loads for passenger trains. DMUs I can probably scrape together from the photos on the site and the timing loads, but a lot of the loco-hauled workings are leaving me high and dry!

So:
-Is there any good reference for locos used and coach formations, either by train or to infer from timing loads? The site has photos of some trains and gives example lengths ("anywhere between 8 and 16", dependent on season, basically!), but things running at night are more obscure - for example, is a D315 Mail Service a shorter train behind a 25 or a longer one behind a 47?
-Is there any information on non-trip shunts, e.g. Holyhead ECS and the parcels services at Bangor?
-What's that site with all the historical railtours/excursions listed (I hope it does the latter, anyway)? Would be nice to drop in a few summer specials to really give those block bells a workout!

Last edited: 21/11/2012 at 00:57 by Danny252
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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:24 #37838
jc92
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mail and parcels trains ran to specific formations dependant on each contract the train was running for. this could of course be increased/decreased as required. the loco would be allocated according to the loading. i have no information on specific mail formations going that far back.

shunts are never timetabled. trip notices usually indicate simply "shunts X as required 06:00 - 17:00" for instance" most of the shunts will take place off sim, and only use the necks as available.

ECS at holyhead would usually be taken by the jocko for cleaning, then would either be replatformed or stored in the C.S. depending what its next diagrammed working, it could be even just go back out straight away.

in 76 most of the workings will be Mk1, with Mk2 on the Euston services (with the faithful BG at the end of course).

when pascal is back online im sure he will be able to enlighten you further.

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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:38 #37839
headshot119
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At Llandudno town on arrival trains headed into the Down Sidings to run around. Not sure if that was via propelling or whether the station had a pilot loco.
"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:41 #37841
jc92
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trains propelled, ran round, then propelled back in, guard using the comm cord to stop the train in an emergency.
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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:44 #37842
headshot119
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" said:
trains propelled, ran round, then propelled back in, guard using the comm cord to stop the train in an emergency.
Can never remember which way round it was. I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing how different it was back then.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:50 #37843
jc92
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" said:
" said:
trains propelled, ran round, then propelled back in, guard using the comm cord to stop the train in an emergency.
Can never remember which way round it was. I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing how different it was back then.
for the 90s summer weekday, units are a mix of 156, 150 and 101, the euston trains are worked primarily by 47/6s and 47/4s which simply run round at holyhead (two sets are cleaned and stabled overnight). there is one daily loco hauled manc. victoria- llandudno which is a lottery for traction, either a 31/4 2 30s or a 37/4.

i hate to disapoint but it isnt that much different to the 2009 timetable, except the bangor terminators which shunt to layover in the C.S. and the freight is more interesting

in the 80s transpennine services to holyhead/ llan were 45/1s and 45/0s as well as 47/4s, working Mk2s. reliefs and extras could have allsorts like 40s 31s 25s etc.

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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 22:53 #37844
jc92
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danny- can i suggest you copy what i do, before i even touch the simsig editor, i create an A&D spreadsheet for each major station and input all the trains arriving and departing, i can then work out platforming and also what each set will work next so i can arrange any shunting, cleaning fuelling splitting etc and i go from there. it also helps me balance any overnight berths.

Joe

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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 23:06 #37847
Danny252
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Quote:
danny- can i suggest you copy what i do, before i even touch the simsig editor, i create an A&D spreadsheet for each major station and input all the trains arriving and departing, i can then work out platforming and also what each set will work next so i can arrange any shunting, cleaning fuelling splitting etc and i go from there. it also helps me balance any overnight berths.
I was just about to start asking about that! I'm still grinding through copying out the WTT to Excel so I can play with it, it should be easy enough to get an A&D from that.

There's a few interesting moves so far in the 76 TT - an 08 spends the week posted at Bangor, having run out on Monday and back in on Saturday - of course, at 15mph covering 15 miles, that's a fairly long trip! Must've been a fun job, getting up for 3:17 am to spend an hour clanking along in the cold...

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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 23:13 #37848
jc92
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" said:

There's a few interesting moves so far in the 76 TT - an 08 spends the week posted at Bangor, having run out on Monday and back in on Saturday - of course, at 15mph covering 15 miles, that's a fairly long trip! Must've been a fun job, getting up for 3:17 am to spend an hour clanking along in the cold...
similar to the Earles sidings pilot- a Tinsley Based 08 which tripped out and back as required for exams.

York also had the scarborough Pilot (2 Pilots in the summer) which tripped out and back as required for inspection, another fun turn i imagine!

where does the 08 return to? Llan junction? I could be amazingly evil and run a holyhead - Chester D.D. 08 trip, but this would be a SUN working.

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Loco/Train formations 20/11/2012 at 23:18 #37849
Danny252
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" said:
where does the 08 return to? Llan junction? I could be amazingly evil and run a holyhead - Chester D.D. 08 trip, but this would be a SUN working.
Yup, back to Llan Jcn - Trip 50: http://www.2d53.co.uk/trip/T7605N.htm

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 00:59 #37859
Danny252
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Quick question - is it possible for a train to drop off the sim at Blaenau? If not, I'll think of something creative for the Trawsfynydd trip (read: stick it in the loop for 5 hours)
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 01:05 #37860
jc92
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" said:
Quick question - is it possible for a train to drop off the sim at Blaenau? If not, I'll think of something creative for the Trawsfynydd trip (read: stick it in the loop for 5 hours)
thats what im going to do with mine! the bomb working is an interesting one. it runs as two trains coupled from sellafield - Llandudno Jcn TC, so 3x TLC CL.31/1s + 2 sets of FNAs, brake vans and barriers. at llandudno it then splits into two trains, one for valley, with a single ped, and one for trawdfyndd with 2 peds. the same working then returns later and couples back up to return to sellafield.

more likely to be a rat working in the 70s.

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 09:50 #37868
GoochyB
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" said:

-What's that site with all the historical railtours/excursions listed (I hope it does the latter, anyway)?

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/70s/ht1976.html

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 09:56 #37871
headshot119
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" said:
Quick question - is it possible for a train to drop off the sim at Blaenau? If not, I'll think of something creative for the Trawsfynydd trip (read: stick it in the loop for 5 hours)
You can't drop a train of the sim at Blaenau, you can however seed trains in via the sand drag straight into the siding.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 10:03 #37874
Stephen Fulcher
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Does anyone know exactly what method of working was used for the flask trains to the power station?
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 10:20 #37877
jc92
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I believe it was OTW with token, the token releasing a ground frame controlling trap points just past the "headshunt"(no3?) to give access to and from the branch and controlling the GF at Trawsfynydd to allow access to the CEGB sidings
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 11:03 #37881
headshot119
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There was most definitely a separate token (or staff) to allow trains beyond Blaenau, with the train depositing the Llanrwst - Blaenau token into the NSKT instrument.
"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 11:28 #37883
woodruff
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http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/mostyn.html is a web address for the Barrymore model railway group. On the Mostyn page there is a link to the coaching formations used on the North Wales line, 1977 I think it is dated.

http://www.2d53.co.uk/TT/TTmenu.htm is the web address for the equally excellent web site on the North Wales Coast line. There are loads of timetable info. I know because I was thinking of doing a 1977 tt for the sim when I saw it had come out !

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 12:02 #37885
Danny252
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" said:
http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/mostyn.html is a web address for the Barrymore model railway group. On the Mostyn page there is a link to the coaching formations used on the North Wales line, 1977 I think it is dated.
Brilliant find! Thanks for that.

And the Blaenau "wait" for the Trawsfynydd trips is actually more interesting than I thought - as trains were propelled in, all the shunting actually occurs right there. You definitely give GFs 2 and 3 a good work out swapping loco and brake van!

(Though there's a bug with the No.2 GF location - I'll make a separate thread)

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 15:38 #37919
jc92
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" said:
" said:
http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/mostyn.html is a web address for the Barrymore model railway group. On the Mostyn page there is a link to the coaching formations used on the North Wales line, 1977 I think it is dated.
Brilliant find! Thanks for that.

And the Blaenau "wait" for the Trawsfynydd trips is actually more interesting than I thought - as trains were propelled in, all the shunting actually occurs right there. You definitely give GFs 2 and 3 a good work out swapping loco and brake van!

(Though there's a bug with the No.2 GF location - I'll make a separate thread)
i was led to beleive the loco drew the train in and propelled back to blaenau?

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 16:41 #37926
Danny252
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2D53 says otherwise: http://www.2d53.co.uk/blaenauffestiniog/Trawsfynydd%20Branch%201.htm
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 17:36 #37929
jc92
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thats where i got the original info from:

"The track layout here (with no loop) made the branch workings awkward, with the train having to be propelled from Blaenau."

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 18:30 #37932
Danny252
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Which is quite different from your suggestion of propelling to Blaenau!
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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 20:33 #37941
jc92
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" said:
Which is quite different from your suggestion of propelling to Blaenau!
what i wrote and what i meant are two different things :blush: apologies, it was a rushed post in a work break, we do in fact agree

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Loco/Train formations ("The 1976 TT") 21/11/2012 at 21:12 #37943
ozzyd9001
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i was lucky as my family holidayed at prestatyn for the years 75, 76,77 and i used to spen 2 or 3 days traveling the route from Chester to hollyhead. wish i kept my photos and notes now.
but i do know that the freight liner depot is now under the ferry terminal on the east side or platform 3 as i remember class 40s on these trains. also i found the last class 24 24081 hiding in the bay at Bangor in 77 i think it was. not to sure but i think they may have been sleepers running at that time too. we used to travel by a pair of 25s on a Nottingham to llandudno summer sat train

hope this helps

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