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NEScot 2013 TT

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NEScot 2013 TT 14/03/2013 at 15:39 #42327
postal
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Unexplained mystery, then. If you start the sim from scratch again does the same thing happen?
"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
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NEScot 2013 TT 14/03/2013 at 16:15 #42328
postal
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I've just realised we've missed something fairly basic and this is a fundamental flaw in the TT as written. If you are running at one of the levels that can set delays on trains entering (probably anything more difficult than beginner) then the various 0Z0X trains can have different amounts of delay imposed on their TTs by the sim code. If the trains can get out of chronological order, then the trains need re-specifying or more than 10 rules are needed.

It is a complex situation but I hope this explanation is coherent enough to follow.

The core code continually cycles through checking the status of things (I think twice a second is the default cycle rate). It updates the position of each train in the sim and also checks the TT for trains due to enter. If there is more than one train due to enter at one time, the core code reads them alphabetically (i.e. 0Z01 then 0Z02, 0Z03 etc or 0Z01A, 0Z01B, 0Z01c etc.). That means that when all the trains are on time, at 00:00:30 or 04:45:30 it reads 0Z01 first. This has a 20% chance of running (i.e. it will enter once in every 5 runs on average) and picks the first day of the week, If 0Z01 does run, then you need 4 rules to stop the other 0Z0X trains entering. If 0Z01 does not run, the TT then looks at 0Z02. There are 4 days of the week left, so 0Z02 had a 25% chance of running set into the TT. If 0Z02 does run, you need three more rules to stop 0Z03/4/5 entering. 0Z03 has a 33% chance (and 0Z04/5 need rules), 0Z04 has a 50% chance (and 0Z05 needs a rule). If none of 0Z01 to 0Z04 run, 0Z05 must run so it has no percentage chance of running set and will always enter.

However, if the scenario allows delays, then 0Z01 may be delayed to the extent that it is due to enter after 0Z02. If 0Z02 then does enter we have no rule to stop 0Z01 entering so there is a 20% chance that 0Z01 will enter after 0Z02 has made its appearance (and similarly for the other 0Z0X trains).

There are two ways round the problem. If the sim is built on core code that allows seed trains, then the day-of-the-week trains should be set to seed, not to enter after sim start time. The seed trains will always enter at the start of the sim so the code will always read them in the correct order and the 10 rules will suffice. If the day-of-the-week trains cannot be seeded and may be subject to delays, you have to set up a full set of rules to make all the trains mutually exclusive - you have to explicitly state that 0Z01 must not run if 0Z02/3/4/5 run as well as the converse rules that 0Z02/3/4/5 must not run if 0Z01 runs. You can do this quickly on sims built on recent code, where the TT has an "Add XOR list" button on the rules tab. Otherwise you have to set things up manually and write all 20 rules individually.

The 20/25/33/50 percentages are not exactly correct once we throw delays into the equation (Clive Feather has gone into some depth about this and I think the statistical reasoning is on the Forum somewhere, although it may be on the bug-board) but we get close enough to a random distribution that the enjoyment of the sim is not compromised.

If that is not the problem, then we are back to the unexplained mystery.

"No question is too stupid, there are just some stupid answers" - Dr. Michael Reece, 12/08/1927 - 03/06/2019. Electrical engineer and inventor
Last edited: 14/03/2013 at 16:21 by postal
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NEScot 2013 TT 14/03/2013 at 20:26 #42332
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V1.3 submitted, awaiting moderator approval. This version seeds 'Day of the Week' trains, which should cure the problem raised above. It also corrects the minor error with the 0445 start TT.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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NEScot 2013 TT 14/03/2013 at 20:32 #42333
MJD
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Many thanks look forward to downloading sooooooooon.
Mike.
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NEScot 2013 TT 03/05/2017 at 23:02 #94909
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Version 2.0, which is compatible with the Loader version of NEScot, is available here.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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The following user said thank you: hilllc76
NEScot 2013 TT 07/05/2017 at 20:29 #94969
Ray
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I have a problem with the 2013 TT NE Scotland (Loader). Services travelling north lose step with TT at Usan. They then fail to stop at any station after Usan so arrive at Aberdeen too early.
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NEScot 2013 TT 07/05/2017 at 21:04 #94971
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Ray in post 94969 said:
I have a problem with the 2013 TT NE Scotland (Loader). Services travelling north lose step with TT at Usan. They then fail to stop at any station after Usan so arrive at Aberdeen too early.
Looks like a simulation issue with the Montrose Resignalling era. Raised as Mantis #17349. For now, you can run the TT in the pre-resignalling mode; it doesn't actually make a difference.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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NEScot 2013 TT 16/05/2017 at 17:41 #95135
tynie123
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At Last I think I have the new timetable. But it saves as Scottish custom. Also I have trains running that do not cancel out their stations on the timetable as the make their journey. I have for example 2A01 Sitting at a buffer stop and in the Train list is states Inverkeilor. I guess I can change the service manually as ACI is on , it should now be 1V60
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NEScot 2013 TT 16/05/2017 at 20:23 #95139
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tynie123 in post 95135 said:
At Last I think I have the new timetable. But it saves as Scottish custom.
What saves as Scottish custom?

Quote:
Also I have trains running that do not cancel out their stations on the timetable as the make their journey. I have for example 2A01 Sitting at a buffer stop and in the Train list is states Inverkeilor. I guess I can change the service manually as ACI is on , it should now be 1V60
This is the bug referred to immediately above your post- trains don't register passing Usan in Montrose Resignalling mode. Either run without Montrose Resignalling (this will work fine), or step timetables up manually after the train passes Usan.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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NEScot 2013 TT 16/05/2017 at 20:29 #95141
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cheers will do.
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NEScot 2013 TT 28/05/2017 at 13:02 #95445
tynie123
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Quick question. I have a closure at Dundee due to flooding. What can I do apart from stopping services already running. Can I reroute Aberdeen services via Inverness. Turn services around at Dundee from Plat 4 and 5. And does anybody know how long the closure will run for. Ta.
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NEScot 2013 TT 28/05/2017 at 14:17 #95446
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We normally will stop services. Common practice is to turn at Dundee, using available platforms to turn trains, and stepping up services.

running via inverness isn't common practice.

HAP
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The following user said thank you: tynie123
NEScot 2013 TT 28/03/2018 at 23:28 #107078
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Been Running through this timetable at the moment with the Wednesday services.

I've noticed that none of the Freight services have Use Freight Linespeeds, or Can Use Freight Lines ticked, which means that running the freight services into their respective yards, or onto a goods loop, they call up wrong route. This was also noticeable with 0A66 when I routed him over to the Up and Down Ferryhill. ECS trains however take the route onto the Ferryhill line without issue.

TT Version 2.0
Sim V 4.2.2

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