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| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 02:23 #44904 | |
arabianights
138 posts |
In general, are there special measures for the Royal Train IRL (e.g. like the air force one callsign, is there a special train desccription? - and how about special procedures) or is it just basically treated like any other special? Myself I would hope at the least it is given special attention. Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 05:15 #44905 | |
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pilotman
189 posts |
In AB days it was belled "4-4-4" and was double block worked. It also carried a "full house" headcode and 2 tail lamps.
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| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 07:58 #44906 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
not forgetting an additional light loco to run directly in front of the train (well two blocks ahead). I'm sure ive seen 4-4-4 additionally used for a Postal special/TPO on at least one 1930s cinefilm. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 09:10 #44907 | |
58050
2650 posts |
Train description for the Royal train used to be '1X01', but within the railway Regional Controls the train also had a special name. There were 3 names given to it & depending who was tarvelling on it determined the name given. I can remember 2 out of the 3, but the third name givem escapes me. The train was referred to as 'The Grove' or 'Deepdene', but the 3rd name I can't for the life of me remember. The other thing to note is that the Royal train ran at a lower speed than class 1 expresses, somewhere around the 60mph mark. This was in case it struck anything on the mainline. The other thing to note is that at the destination of the train there is a mark on the platform where the driver has to stop his cab level with this mark so the door the royal party exits from is in line with the red carpet. The train is not allowed to run early & must arrive at its destination exactly on time, even if that means the train runs at 5 mph for several miles to lose any time it has made up. When I was Trainsmaster at Bescot several of the senior Bescot drivers worked the royal train regularly & in one instance the train was going to Wolverhampton & due to it running early the driver told me that between Birmingham New Street & Wolverhampton the majority of the journey he had to run at 5 mph so the train lost time & as a result would arrive at Wolverhampton exactly as booked. During my time as a loco controller you had to have several locos at various locations acting as standby incase the loco on the train failed. Also you had to sign a document marked 'Top Secret For Your Eyes Only' & was kept by the Deputy Chief Controller. This document was only viewed by those on the list to see it & once you jad read & inderstood the details contained within it you signed & dated it & placed it back into the plain brown envelope & handed it back to the DCC. Whether the same thing applies today I don't know, but the above was during the days of British Rail.
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| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 09:19 #44908 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:not forgetting an additional light loco to run directly in front of the train (well two blocks ahead). I suspect that film is 'Night Mail'. I'd noticed that as well. A 'proper' Royal has the headcode 1X01, or at least it used to in my day. The detail of the special measures changed with the years. I'm given to understand that in Queen Victoria's day signalmen (no 'signallers' in those days, please) were required to wear white gloves and salute as she went by. I'm not sure when the running of a 'pilot engine' ceased; It certainly wasn't happening by the late 1960s (we lived by the GN Main Line and, with dad being a signalman, knew when there would be special movements of all kinds. I don't ever recall a pilot engine). Instructions for a Royal came out as special notices, each copy individually numbered and issued (and signed for) on a 'need to know' basis; after passage of the train they had to be returned and the Area Manager had to account for every one. If they were for a royal tour, they could extend to dozens of pages and gave the most incredible detail of every movement, where the train would stable overnight (and all the special arrangements), right down to the engine number of the loco that would drag it up the branch or siding and provide steam heat all night long. If anyone has access to the history of the Ashburton Branch (I can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment so I can't give author or publisher, published in the '80s it's almost certainly out of print by now) there's an appendix with the instructions for a visit to the West Country in the early 1960s. More than that I'm not going to say, even though my knowledge is now over 25 years old. There also used to be a practice of attaching a carriage from the royal fleet to a service train for 'private' journeys; little in the way of special instructions but Control used to keep a special eye on things. Not uncommon for an up Lynn to carry a royal carriage if HM was at Sandringham and wanted to nip up to town for some reason. There are a number of good stories about Royals and the things that happened around them. One (at least) is in the public domain - the day a signal arm fell off (try & get hold of Gerry Fiennes' 'I Tried to Run a Railway'); quite some years later I was Station Manager on the same patch and an old relief signalman filled me in on some of the detail (and had I not known the incident had happened I'd certainly have refused to believe a word of such an outlandish tale). Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 09:30 #44909 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
kbarber wrote: Quote: There also used to be a practice of attaching a carriage from the royal fleet to a service train for 'private' journeys; little in the way of special instructions but Control used to keep a special eye on things. Not uncommon for an up Lynn to carry a royal carriage if HM was at Sandringham and wanted to nip up to town for some reason. Yes Keith I've been involved with that many times when I was Liverpool Street Regional Control & had a standby loco at Audley End, Cambridge & Ely for the journey to King's Lynn. I've heard the tale many times of the Queen walking down the platform at Liverpool Street whilst the station was under-going its re-build. She'd travelled in a 1st class carriage attached to the rear of an express from King's Lynn - Liverpool Street & the sight of the Queen walking through the rubble & dust of the building site at Liverpool Street was a bit odd. However we mustn't forget that famous incident of the Royal train heading to King's Lynn from Liverpool Street in the late 1950s when the Cl.31 hauling the train failed in the Cambridge area & had to be rescued by a B1 steam loco if I remember correctly. You may know that story Keith as that was before my time. Last edited: 20/05/2013 at 09:31 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 09:41 #44910 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:The train was referred to as 'The Grove' or 'Deepdene', but the 3rd name I can't for the life of me remember. I've an idea the 3rd code was 'Deeplus'. The Grove and Deepdene were the names of country houses taken over as emergency HQ buildings for the railways companies during WWII (The Grove was the LMS and Deepdene was the Southern, and The Grove later became the BR management training centre). I don't think they actually had to be used but, had the blitz affected the London HQ, they could have been brought into service very quickly. I have a suspicion Control offices were relocated (perhaps only some of them) to be close to the emergency HQ and remote from the bombing (try and prevent any interruption at all). It's my belief (though this is a bit speculative) that these codes were associated with a standard set of instructions for working of the trains concerned, with timings etc wired out as required. Initially this could well have been to allow rapid evacuation of the government of the country in case of an invasion. Remember the Royal Train has all the facilities needed for HM to perform her duties, including secure communications of every kind, and it could've been envisged that it would become a mobile Buck House while any invasion was repulsed. Later, it would've facilitated rapid arrangement of morale-boosting visits around the country. I suspect one of the codes was for Prime Minister &/or Cabinet, for similar reasons. Good system; why abandon it just because peace has broken out? " said: The other thing to note is that the Royal train ran at a lower speed than class 1 expresses, somewhere around the 60mph mark. This was in case it struck anything on the mainline. The other thing to note is that at the destination of the train there is a mark on the platform where the driver has to stop his cab level with this mark so the door the royal party exits from is in line with the red carpet. Didn't prevent a little incident at Waterloo, rather a long time ago, when the reception party was all lined up on platform 12 and the train arrived absolutely perfectly - behind them on platform 13!  Didn't do the signalman that much harm though; he eventually retired as Area Movements Inspector for Waterloo." said: During my time as a loco controller you had to have several locos at various locations acting as standby incase the loco on the train failed. Which wasn't the case for one of those private journeys. Which led to the incident whan HM was coming up from Sandringham. They did usually prep an engine specially to try and avoid embarrassment. Unfortunately, on this occasion it didn't work and the loco sat down somewhere in the middle of the fens. :blush: Fortunately (?) there was a down Lynn not too far away; the loco was nabbed off that and HM was got on her way as quickly as they could (only about 50 down), while the passengers on the down road sat, enginless, in the middle of the bogs waiting for Cambridge to find an engine they thought would get that far without failing. Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 09:55 #44912 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Another Bescot driver who had worked the Royal train several times told me a couple of stories that stick in my mind. One was when he was working the Royal train out of Euston & there was a rough section of track in the 'throat' of Euston station & apparently as the train crossed this section of track one of the Queen's Ladies in waiting was serving tea at the time & the train jerked causing the tea to be split all over the table. The driver received a 'please explain'; for that one. On another occasion the same driver was taking the Queen to Aberysthwyth with a pair of class 20s due to the weight restrictions at that time on that route. He said when he arrived at Aberystwyth the Queen walked down the platform & climbed into the cab of the leading class 20 & asked him how he was going to get the engines onto the other end of the train. Rumour has it that the Queen has a Platform 5 or Ian Allan book on the train & she marks off all the locos she's been hauled by.  (some hellfire engines have worked that train during its time).
Last edited: 20/05/2013 at 10:06 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 10:10 #44913 | |
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jc92
3631 posts |
" said:Rumour has it that the Queen has a Platform 5 or Ian Allan book on the train & she marks off all the locos she's been hauled by.All this time I had thought the royal wave was a mark of etiquette, it turns out the queen was Just practicing her flailing 
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 20/05/2013 at 10:18 #44914 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
jc92 wrote: Quote:
Indeed.
Last edited: 20/05/2013 at 10:18 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 21/05/2013 at 03:00 #44943 | |
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Backup
89 posts |
"One's Lords!"
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| The Royal Train 21/05/2013 at 17:45 #44954 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
" said:The other thing to note is that at the destination of the train there is a mark on the platform where the driver has to stop his cab level with this mark so the door the royal party exits from is in line with the red carpet.Every trip is planned in advance, with the exact length (and formation) of the train sent to the Ops Department, who will measure out the length of the train on the platform. A handsignaller (or handsignalman if you wish) will stand where marked displaying a yellow hand signal, and the driver must stop with his cab door opposite this within a couple of feet. There is an excellent book on the Royal Train: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Royal-Train-Inside-Story/dp/0857331329/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369158300&sr=8-1&keywords=royal+train Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 22/05/2013 at 20:41 #45028 | |
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Signalhunter
177 posts |
" said:" said:An example can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgJ-bkTNHMThe other thing to note is that at the destination of the train there is a mark on the platform where the driver has to stop his cab level with this mark so the door the royal party exits from is in line with the red carpet.Every trip is planned in advance, with the exact length (and formation) of the train sent to the Ops Department, who will measure out the length of the train on the platform. A handsignaller (or handsignalman if you wish) will stand where marked displaying a yellow hand signal, and the driver must stop with his cab door opposite this within a couple of feet. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: UKTrainMan |
| The Royal Train 22/05/2013 at 20:53 #45030 | |
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jc92
3631 posts |
shame its missing a lamp
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 23/05/2013 at 05:14 #45038 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
Most of the old arrangements mentioned here are now obsolete. It runs with a 'normal' Z headcode and there are - generally - no special signalling arrangements. They don't even give a notice to signallers most of the time these days.
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| The Royal Train 23/05/2013 at 10:42 #45046 | |
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john havenhand
58 posts |
Probably runs as either 1Z01 or 1Z99
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| The Royal Train 23/05/2013 at 10:50 #45047 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
1Z99 is reserved for trains, in various forms, going to clear the line. I suspect that one would not be amused if one's train was used for that purpose!
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| The Royal Train 23/05/2013 at 12:24 #45052 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
" said:shame its missing a lamp ;)Think this was discussed somewhere on here at the time, but if it's not carrying the monarch, it only has the bottom three lamps
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| The Royal Train 23/05/2013 at 15:51 #45059 | |
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officer dibble
390 posts |
" said:Probably runs as either 1Z01 or 1Z99Came through Reading last week as 1Z41, seems to be no real pattern with headcodes, just suppose they make them up & let it roll! Log in to reply |
| The Royal Train 25/05/2013 at 07:15 #45121 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
Exactly. I meant exactly what I said, the Special Train runs under a 'normal' Z headcode. From a signaller's point of view it's just an ordinary train these days except that it is expected to be given priority when regulating.
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