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| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 08:22 #47528 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
When called by a shunter to accept a train, the signaller's range of choices seems adequate enough: However, what if, at the time, the signaller had his hands full and selected 5 or 15 minutes, then as soon as he closed the call a window cleared and an opportunity presented itself? It just seems natural to me that the signaller would pick up the phone, ring the shunter back earler than the time delay agreed, and say something like "I can accept 6O81 now if that's OK with you". The busy shunter would respond "OK" or "Not now" or "Will do as early as possible". Having this feature would add a nice touch of realism. Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 09:04 #47529 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
Unless I'm mistaken this simply tells the shunter when to phone back. Should you find a margin, you can pull off and the train should emerge regardless of further phone calls (which, in fact, won't happen if the train gets under way).
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| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 09:20 #47532 | |
Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:Unless I'm mistaken this simply tells the shunter when to phone back. Should you find a margin, you can pull off and the train should emerge regardless of further phone calls (which, in fact, won't happen if the train gets under way).Just tested with Westbury and the train does not enter until permission is granted to the shunter. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 09:39 #47535 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
There are two different developer set options: permission to enter and notice of entry. I think it's the former that Max is asking about. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 12:55 #47555 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:There are two different developer set options: permission to enter and notice of entry. My misunderstanding then, and in that case I'd second Max's request. Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 13:13 #47557 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
In reality, if the shunter was told to ring back in 15 he'd probably go for a brew/read paper and not bother to answer the 'phone till it suited. :evil:
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 14:11 #47559 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts 
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Andy's point is a good one - at one of our boxes, the main means of communication with the shunter is via the lineside phone at the ground frame. Once you've told him to wait a bit, and he's wandered off, it can be difficult to get him back again! On the other hand, you'd usually be able to take his mobile number and get hold of him on that. Generally though, if you're just waiting for a margin to run the train, there's no harm in accepting him from the shunter to stand at the outlet signal - I suppose you'd only refuse it if you had something else to run into the yard first. Tom Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 14:38 #47560 | |
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Peter Bennet
5362 posts |
" said:Andy's point is a good one - at one of our boxes, the main means of communication with the shunter is via the lineside phone at the ground frame. Once you've told him to wait a bit, and he's wandered off, it can be difficult to get him back again! On the other hand, you'd usually be able to take his mobile number and get hold of him on that. Generally though, if you're just waiting for a margin to run the train, there's no harm in accepting him from the shunter to stand at the outlet signal - I suppose you'd only refuse it if you had something else to run into the yard first.That's right it's more a "Mexican" mitigation measure than anything else. The old norm was for the train to enter and then you got a call to tell you; which caused the obvious problems. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Late Turn |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 15:32 #47567 | |
jc92
3630 posts |
assuming its ok for the train to enter and pull up to the dolly, why not just accept it, and then clear the dolly when possible? I would only refuse it if i wanted to put something into the yard before the train in question left. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 16:20 #47572 | |
pedroathome
889 posts |
Would it work to maybe have a option saying something like, Another train approaching (or entering) yard. Call back when arrived.
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| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 21:20 #47576 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:Would it work to maybe have a option saying something like, Another train approaching (or entering) yard. Call back when arrived.No. The shunter knows his schedules. He wants to send the train to make room for the next one to arrive. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 22:14 #47580 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts
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" said:" said:Would it work to maybe have a option saying something like, Another train approaching (or entering) yard. Call back when arrived.No. The shunter knows his schedules. He wants to send the train to make room for the next one to arrive. But, generally, the only reason for refusing a train from the Shunter is because you've got a move into the yard that needs to go first. It follows, then, that the arrival of that other train would be a good cue for him to try again for permission to let it up to the outlet signal. Obviously it's a different story if the yard's full, but then he'd be screaming at you not to let any more in  .Tom Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 25/07/2013 at 22:21 #47581 | |
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Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:Agreed that would be the case in real life, but is it possible to simulate it accurately? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 26/07/2013 at 04:52 #47585 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts
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" said:" said:Agreed that would be the case in real life, but is it possible to simulate it accurately? If the yard's not full (unless perhaps he was hoping to use the same road for both), I can't think why the Shunter would have cause to be upset (more than normal anyway) if you couldn't get the departing train away for a few minutes (waiting for a margin on the main line, perhaps) but wanted to get an arriving train inside and clear of the running line. If the yard is full - Simsig simulates that, doesn't it, in Euston at least? Might require a phone call to the Shunter for the arriving train too though. Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 26/07/2013 at 06:44 #47586 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks all for your comments. Peter Bennet said Quote: There are two different developer set options: permission to enter and notice of entry. I think it's the former that Max is asking about.That's right. AndyG said Quote: In reality, if the shunter was told to ring back in 15 he'd probably go for a brew/read paper and not bother to answer the 'phone till it suited.I've noticed, at least in Westbury, there's already a built-in delay variability in placing a message to a shunter to accept the next train, which is realistic. If I've just called him and another train arrives soon after, I might have to wait, say, 20-30 seconds till the call is answered. Late Turn wrote Quote: Generally though, if you're just waiting for a margin to run the train, there's no harm in accepting him from the shunter to stand at the outlet signalI used to do this as a routine, but am now trying to avoid this situation as I understand that, once a train has entered my area, every minute it spends waiting at the outlet signal is a minute of delay marked against me. It won't go anywhere and takes low priority compared with all the mayhem happening elsewhere. My solution would be to add an extra choice to the "Place call" button on the Telephone Calls menu. Select the yard, then select "Ready to accept train now" followed by the headcode. The shunter's response could be any of the options I listed earlier, plus a "Shunter has not yet requested train" to prevent this being used to pre-empt shunter's original call. The main advantage to me would be, if things around the entry yard are really sticky, I might defer all further entries for, say, 15 minutes to avoid the need for the shunter to keep ringing back, then use this feature to reaccept a train he had previously offered if I can see clean getaway opening up (e.g., Westbury Down Yard to Warminster). Last edited: 26/07/2013 at 06:59 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Reaccept train from shunter 26/07/2013 at 09:49 #47596 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts
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" said:I used to do this as a routine, but am now trying to avoid this situation as I understand that, once a train has entered my area, every minute it spends waiting at the outlet signal is a minute of delay marked against me. It won't go anywhere and takes low priority compared with all the mayhem happening elsewhere. I'd never thought of it that way - does the sim only 'count' delays accrued after the train has been accepted from the shunter? If it doesn't already, perhaps it ought to start picking up delay minutes as soon as the shunter advises that it's ready rather than when it actually enters the simulation to avoid sneaky workarounds like that .
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| Reaccept train from shunter 26/07/2013 at 18:20 #47612 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
You might be looking at this all wrong. The number of delay minutes doesn't really mean much as there are times when delaying a train is legitimate. Whether the train is on time or not in this context is, I would say, more important. The key here is the timetable. If the train enters late and then you delay it more, you will accrue "lost time" points for delaying the train further. However, if you except a train and it's early, if you delay it till it's on time, while you may accrue some lost minutes, you won't lose any points. As a result, your percentage on-time is a far better indicator of how well you are doing in terms of running the sim. Another way to look at this is that you can accept a train that's running early and you may have to delay it at certain points on it's route to give it a path to get it where it needs to go but as long as it remains early or at least on time to it's timetable...that's all that really matters. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Reaccept train from shunter 28/07/2013 at 12:35 #47657 | |
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slatteryc
248 posts |
This type of thing can be fun on Trent when you are waiting with about 5 trains to get into Toton and then the shunter rings with an LE to the yard .... aarrgh, whoever did that end of it was extremely fiendish. It adds hugely to the enjoyment of that SIM which is by far the best to date IMHO.
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