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Various bugs

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Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 21:22 #51710
UKTrainMan
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All bugs listed here are only currently suspected ones I've noticed whilst signalling away. They have all occurred at-least twice whilst running the simulation solo, and also whilst running the simulation and routing trains normally.



  1. Signal VH9 (King's Cross St. Pancras, Platform 4): If you clear this signal with a train stopped at the platform, yet the section ahead is well clear (at the current moment that I've got this occurring again the previous train is further up the line between Warren Street and Oxford Circus), it'll only clear to white instead of green.


  2. Signal VL6 to VL7 (Seven Sisters area): Setting this route briefly results in Track Circuit TRN lighting up before extinguishing of it's own accord moments afterwards. Track Circuit TRL does not light up at all in the process of this (and indeed probably shouldn't do so).


  3. Points PL11 and Track Circuit TQE (just before Seven Sisters Platform 4): These points revert to their normal position before the Track Circuit they're on becomes unoccupied.



Think that's all of them for now, but will aim to reply on this thread with anything further I happen to come across.

Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
Last edited: 18/11/2013 at 21:58 by UKTrainMan
Reason: Typo! Typo!!

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Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 21:49 #51712
Peter Bennet
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" said:

  1. Signal VH9 (King's Cross St. Pancras, Platform 4): If you clear this signal with a train stopped at the platform, yet the section ahead is well clear (at the current moment that I've got this occurring again the previous train is further up the line between Warren Street and Oxford Circus), it'll only clear to white instead of green.

VH9 should not have a W aspect

" said:

  • Signal VL6 to VL7 (Seven Sisters area): Setting this route briefly results in Track Circuit TRN lighting up before extinguishing of it's own accord moments afterwards. Track Circuit TRL does not light up at all in the process of this (and indeed probably shouldn't do so).

  • One of the reasons I recommended not to run with routes highlighted - there are a number of such oddities.


    " said:

  • Points PL11 and Track Circuit TQE (just before Seven Sisters Platform 4): These points revert to their normal posotion before the Track Circuit they're on becomes unoccupied.



  • Combined TC display.

    Peter

    I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 21:57 #51713
    UKTrainMan
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    Some more to add:



    • Signal A439 (between Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park) seems to revert to red whilst Track Circuit TLZ is still occupied and the train hasn't shown as even passing the signal. Having just noticed this again now, which reminded me of it, Track Circuit T439A isn't even occupied. Not checked F2 Train List for any effects on trains but ACOAs are neither received nor reported.


    • Arsenal approach berth can be cancelled and interposed at at will.[/size]


    • Cancelling a Piccadilly Line TD/headcode at Finsbury Park and letting the train run onwards and out of your area as **** or anything else isn't penalised.




    Something I'm merely questioning:

    No wrong platform 'penalties' are applied anywhere on the simulation. Tested at: Walthamstow Central (opposite); Seven Sisters (P4 instead of P5); and Brixton (opposite).

    Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
    Last edited: 18/11/2013 at 21:57 by UKTrainMan
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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:07 #51714
    UKTrainMan
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    " said:
    " said:
    [ol]
  • Signal VH9 (King's Cross St. Pancras, Platform 4): If you clear this signal with a train stopped at the platform, yet the section ahead is well clear (at the current moment that I've got this occurring again the previous train is further up the line between Warren Street and Oxford Circus), it'll only clear to white instead of green.

  • VH9 should not have a W aspect

    Cropped screenshot from just now.



    Don't believe routes set to it cause any different effects; it'll still happen regardless.



    " said:
    " said:

  • Signal VL6 to VL7 (Seven Sisters area): Setting this route briefly results in Track Circuit TRN lighting up before extinguishing of it's own accord moments afterwards. Track Circuit TRL does not light up at all in the process of this (and indeed probably shouldn't do so).

  • One of the reasons I recommended not to run with routes highlighted - there are a number of such oddities.
    Only seems to occur there as far as I've noticed.

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    Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
    Last edited: 18/11/2013 at 22:26 by UKTrainMan
    Reason: adding and responding to second quote

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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:20 #51715
    peterb
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    Track circuit isolations don't appear to work in this sim, is this as-per reality?
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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:28 #51716
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:
    Track circuit isolations don't appear to work in this sim, is this as-per reality?

    What do you mean?

    Peter

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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:32 #51717
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:
    " said:
    " said:
    [ol]
  • Signal VH9 (King's Cross St. Pancras, Platform 4): If you clear this signal with a train stopped at the platform, yet the section ahead is well clear (at the current moment that I've got this occurring again the previous train is further up the line between Warren Street and Oxford Circus), it'll only clear to white instead of green.

  • VH9 should not have a W aspect

    Cropped screenshot from just now.



    Don't believe routes set to it cause any different effects; it'll still happen regardless.

    I mean the Sim was wrong to have a W aspect in the first place

    Peter

    I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:34 #51718
    UKTrainMan
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    " said:
    " said:
    Track circuit isolations don't appear to work in this sim, is this as-per reality?

    What do you mean?

    Peter
    Seem to occur a bit hit and miss to me. See example below from my previous venture into this interesting new simulation via the reduced-service engineering works timetable. All TCs showing as red have have been isolated using the ENGineering isolation.


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    Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:37 #51719
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:
    " said:
    " said:
    Track circuit isolations don't appear to work in this sim, is this as-per reality?

    What do you mean?

    Peter
    Seem to occur a bit hit and miss to me. See example below from my previous venture into this interesting new simulation via the reduced-service engineering works timetable. All TCs showing as red have have been isolated using the ENGineering isolation.

    Don't know anything about that - if I could I'd inhibit f11 option in my sims.

    Peter

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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 22:47 #51720
    peterb
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    " said:

    Seem to occur a bit hit and miss to me. See example below from my previous venture into this interesting new simulation via the reduced-service engineering works timetable. All TCs showing as red have have been isolated using the ENGineering isolation.
    I can replicate this exactly.

    Another problem I've had at Brixton, not sure if it occurs elsewhere:

    With ARS on, I reassign a train's WTT via F2: for example, from V243-0 to V243-1 (Saturday eng WTT) while the train's at a stand at Brixton.
    After V243-1 has left Brixton, it will run non-ARS. When I try to make the train ARS I'm warned that "train V243-0 has entered area off planned path" and cannot be made ARS

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    Various bugs 18/11/2013 at 23:24 #51721
    Tempest Malice
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    " said:
    " said:
    " said:
    Track circuit isolations don't appear to work in this sim, is this as-per reality?

    What do you mean?

    Peter
    Seem to occur a bit hit and miss to me. See example below from my previous venture into this interesting new simulation via the reduced-service engineering works timetable. All TCs showing as red have have been isolated using the ENGineering isolation.

    You've made the same mistake I first did when trying this, you've isolated the track circuit which selects when clicking on the track, but the isolation will only display if you isolate the combined tc that partial track circuit is part of, try looking down a few entries in the f11 list for one with multiple letters after the number, also whilst doing this a bug I discovered which I don't know if it will effect normal simming or not, but tc TGM in kx reversing siding being occupied prevents the route VF21 to VF6x from clearing, the route will set, but not clear, and all other routes in victoria reversing siding work perfectly fine with this tc occupied.

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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 06:45 #51723
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:
    whilst doing this a bug I discovered which I don't know if it will effect normal simming or not, but tc TGM in kx reversing siding being occupied prevents the route VF21 to VF6x from clearing, the route will set, but not clear, and all other routes in victoria reversing siding work perfectly fine with this tc occupied.
    Checked - error was in LUs data.

    Peter

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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 06:59 #51724
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:
    Some more to add:
    [ul]
  • Signal A439 (between Highbury & Islington and Finsbury Park) seems to revert to red whilst Track Circuit TLZ is still occupied and the train hasn't shown as even passing the signal. Having just noticed this again now, which reminded me of it, Track Circuit T439A isn't even occupied. Not checked F2 Train List for any effects on trains but ACOAs are neither received nor reported.

  • Signal is on TLX, which is before TLY and TLZ, what you see is the combined TC display of all three.


    " said:

    Something I'm merely questioning:

    No wrong platform 'penalties' are applied anywhere on the simulation. Tested at: Walthamstow Central (opposite); Seven Sisters (P4 instead of P5); and Brixton (opposite).

    I've not coded them to do that.

    I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 07:01 #51725
    Peter Bennet
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    " said:

    Another problem I've had at Brixton, not sure if it occurs elsewhere:

    With ARS on, I reassign a train's WTT via F2: for example, from V243-0 to V243-1 (Saturday eng WTT) while the train's at a stand at Brixton.
    After V243-1 has left Brixton, it will run non-ARS. When I try to make the train ARS I'm warned that "train V243-0 has entered area off planned path" and cannot be made ARS
    Did you not get a warning along the lines of this may happen? It used to say that in ARS sims, I'll have a look later

    Peter

    I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 16:06 #51743
    peterb
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    " said:
    Did you not get a warning along the lines of this may happen? It used to say that in ARS sims, I'll have a look later
    No warnings. I've had another look and I think it's because the train's description doesn't step up from -0 to -1 when the change is made i.e. it leaves as V243-0, which then throws the ARS.

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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 18:00 #51746
    metcontrol
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    Could I just briefly add:

    1. It is just typical that after many long hours of doing what I thought was absolutely everything to break this sim, other small oddities come to light. Guess that's just life!
    2. Please keep in mind you are not dealing with the national rail network here. This is LUL and there will be many differences between what a NR control room diagram will show and an LUL one. For example, where it would not be that acceptable to have an Auto signal appear to return to danger before a train has "passed it on the diagram" for LUL this is quite often seen on signalling diagrams. We do not have direct control over Auto signals, and they are generally normally only shown on a diagram for completeness. It is rare to see actual aspects of these signals. What is occuring "outside" on the ground is more important. As long as that is operating correctly, the odd peculiar indication is included in the training! So the flooding of track circuits, and small indication oddities such as A439 are all what I would expect to see. The main thing is regardless of what A439 shows at which point, you are unable to get 2 trains into the same signalling section. I think Marylebone has more than one example of this occuring on the local lines between Harrow and Moor Park.
    3. We don't penalise our signallers if they go off-platform. It is far more important to keep the service moving than worry about the timetabled paths/platforms.

    Last edited: 19/11/2013 at 18:02 by metcontrol
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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 22:03 #51758
    guidomcc
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    How are platform alterations announced at LU stations? I've never seen it happen. On NR it's a pretty consistent flashing platform number and "***CORRECTION***" on the various screens - how is this displayed at LU stations? Does it occur often?
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    Various bugs 19/11/2013 at 22:20 #51759
    Peter Bennet
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    On Vic I think it just says "next train" and an arrow, but generally, it's obvious which the next train is for the short period of time there are two trains present.

    Peter

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    Various bugs 20/11/2013 at 08:41 #51767
    metcontrol
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    Termini generally have some sort of indication of which train is next to depart. They are generally set up by either the local signaller - who knows which train they will route next, or the computer signalling system - which predicts which train will be routed by it next. Both obviously reference the timetable.

    Elsewhere, with some exceptions (on Sub Surface Lines in particular) each platform has a dedicated service/direction of travel.

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    Various bugs 24/11/2013 at 16:56 #51952
    UKTrainMan
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    Erm....

    Whenever I've noticed F7 - Incident Report flashing with something new affecting a particular train at a station, I've often happened to go straight to the area in question and noticed the train still pulling into the station (i.e.: still occupying the relevant Track Circuit before the platform). F2 - Train List confirms this as the trains are typically still moving at what is probably less than 15mph after they've reported a problem (e.g.: with the doors).

    :huh:

    Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
    Last edited: 24/11/2013 at 16:57 by UKTrainMan
    Reason: Italicisation

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    Various bugs 24/11/2013 at 16:59 #51953
    Stephen Fulcher
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    That sounds more core code?
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    Various bugs 24/11/2013 at 19:01 #51956
    metcontrol
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    Passenger alarms are quite often operated before a train reaches a station - which is much better than as a train is leaving and still within platform limits to be honest. Makes dealing with them much easier. And who is to say the driver hasn't had the indication of a potential door or other problem on the approach to a station?
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    Various bugs 27/11/2013 at 19:46 #52076
    jimgos2005
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    Hi there Met Control I have sent you a private messahe hope to hear from you soon all the best thanks
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    Various bugs 18/12/2013 at 18:47 #52961
    asdff
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    Good evening^^
    While I was playing today (with the engineering works timetable), train V212 became defective. In order to keep things moving, I changed it over with train V271, which was shuttling between Seven Sisters and Northumberland Park depot. But when the new V212 (ex-V271) arrived at Finsbury Park, it was reported again as defective, so I suspect that the failure was assigned to the running number instead of the train.

    Thank you for your attention.

    I do apologise if my english is not clear enough, as I'm spanish and it's not my first language (although I keep practising!).

    Greetings.

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    Various bugs 18/12/2013 at 21:20 #52965
    Jan
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    It's mentioned in the manual:
    Quote:
    Note, that the defect is noted against the Vnnn number so a replacement train running to the same number will continue to report the defect unless the original train is returned to Northumberland Park depot first. If you decide to return the stock to Northumberland Park depot it must be running to a timetable that has the same first four characters as it was running within the Sim.

    So the correct procedure would be:
    - Get the train to Seven Sisters P4 or 5. If you want the train to run empty, you can abandon its timetable until it gets to Seven Sisters.
    - After the defective train has arrived at Seven Sisters, assign it a timetable which returns the train from Seven Sisters to the depot, keeping the first four characters of the original train number intact. In your case, you could for example use the timetable for V212-56. As that train isn't due to depart until nearly midnight, you'd probably have to set the current/next location to Seven Sisters Turnback in order for the train to depart early.
    - After the defective train has left the area (check on the F2 train list), you can then reform another train to take its place.

    Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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