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| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 17:51 #55111 | |
peterb
451 posts |
Here, I have some files: The top two is the standard edition timetable. '18th Feb 2014' was a timetable being created. As you can see, it has a file size of 0 which means all my work appears to have been lost. What happened previously isn't completely clear but this is what I believe (based on file creation tags) In order to mass-delete rules, (not possible in the current timetable editor), I decided I would export into comma format. This worked fine. I then decided to convert into text format using ConvData. The final file is, I think the file I attempted to convert the original 18th Feb 2014.wtt into. Trying to reverse convert this file into SimSig format doesn't work. As you can hopefully see, I'm not quite sure how but I appear to have lost a whole timetable, something which I am not best pleased about (to put it mildly). Two other things don't help and confuse me: 1) I've found at least three deep-level locations where Saltley timetable files are stored. (No, not of my own doing!) 2) As you can see from the screenshot, the newer files have a different icon to the original timetable. The ones with the padlock are only visible within the SimSig dialog. They aren't visible in Windows Explorer. They aren't protected or hidden, and in Explorer all 'hidden' files are set to be visible. I can attach all the files if you want. Go figure. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 18:08 #55112 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts |
Programs can overlay icons - SimSig certainly doesn't, and it's virtually impossible to work out what is from just a screenshot. At a guess you've got something which puts a padlock on read-only files, or perhaps a version control system that shows padlocks on checked-in files. There is nothing specific about the SimSig file dialogs - it just uses the Delphi->Windows standard ones. Getting the parameters wrong in convdata may possibly cause it to overwrite data. Not sure what else to suggest. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 18:46 #55116 | |
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peterb
451 posts |
" said:Programs can overlay icons - SimSig certainly doesn't, and it's virtually impossible to work out what is from just a screenshot. At a guess you've got something which puts a padlock on read-only files, or perhaps a version control system that shows padlocks on checked-in files. There is nothing specific about the SimSig file dialogs - it just uses the Delphi->Windows standard ones.Naturally I'm not sure what to suggest here. There must be a reason why Explorer won't show them. There will also be a reason for the padlock (I imagine they're probably one and the same!) The files I should not be read-only and I'm not familiar with what 'checked-in' means. I can only assume something happened to them during the conversion attempts. I won't associate the files with any applications other than Simsig and convdata. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 19:16 #55120 | |
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Jan
889 posts |
The padlock icon is added by Windows and it means that file access is restricted to your user account - in case there are multiple users on your machine, or that drive is shared on the network. As for the case of the missing files, I'd guess it's the following problem: For security reasons, normal users shouldn't be allowed to have write access to the Program Files directory, and consequently, programs shouldn't store user information there. However because this was never really enforced in the past (Microsoft tried to in XP, but because this simply broke programs, most people simply used an admin account in order to continue getting full access rights everywhere) and old habits are hard to break, there are a number of programs out there which still do that - including the older versions of Simsig. Starting with Vista, Microsoft added an compatibility layer. If it detects a program belonging to a normal user trying to write within the Program Files directory, it redirects the write to a subfolder within C:\<User>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore, which is why you see the files only within Simsig. However normally, Explorer should display an additional button ("Compatibility Files"  which will show you those hidden files.To get around that problem in the future, you need to give yourself full write access to the Simsig directory. Right click on the Simsig folder in Explorer, then Properties -> Security. Click on Edit, and then add your user name and give it full access. Finally, you need to move the files from the Virtual Store (C:\<User>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore) back to the Simsig directory. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 19:33 #55122 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:Head meet desk. Please don't go giving yourself full write access to folders for no reason, write to the correct folders and you'll have no issues, especially with Loader sims where you can configure where to look for things. -Addendum- Here's what I think is going on,the 3 files that are padlocked are in a comparability folder (under the user's directory) and hence are locked only to that user, the top two files are under Program Files and are accessible by anyone. saltley18thfeb (with no extension) is quite possibly the timetable converted to convdata format, but without seeing it, it's impossible to know. As to whether you've lost the timetable, there's 336KB of data in that file, have a look in a text editor and see what there is. Last edited: 06/02/2014 at 19:46 by Sacro Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 19:59 #55123 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
Peter, To start with, the padlock icons are not due to an installed program. They use the file extensions to determine type and since a number of the files have the same extension but different icons, this is not it. The icons are from Windows itself. Programs could overlay the padlock but I think if you were using software that did that such as a version control application, you would know what you were looking at so I think this is Windows itself doing it. I am almost certain your machine is running Windows Vista or later and and it looks like this could be Windows security "features" doing things under the hood because you are trying to do something it doesn't agree with. I have a couple of possibilities.... 1) There is a feature in Windows whereby if you try and place files in certain locations and don't have permission, Windows writes them to a completely different place instead so it stores the data. One possibility therefore is the padlock icons are windows telling you that the files are really not where you think they are. A look through the files properties (using right-click -> Properties ) should indicate what the actual location of the file really is. 2) The padlock may indicate the file does not belong to you but belongs somehow belongs to the Windows system or another user other than you. In order to gain access to it, you'll have to find out what permissions it has and change it so that you are the owner. The key is precisely what folder are you trying to put these in files into? That may tell us a lot about what is going on. Edit: looks like Sacro and Jan got in while I was writing this.... Last edited: 06/02/2014 at 20:02 by Lardybiker Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 20:39 #55128 | |
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Jan
889 posts |
" said:" said:Well, the older Simsig simulations do need writing access to their installation directory, although you have a point insofar as it probably suffices if you give yourself write permissions to the simulation subdirectories within the Simsig folder, e.g. in Peter's case the Saltley folder.Head meet desk. Please don't go giving yourself full write access to folders for no reason, write to the correct folders and you'll have no issues, especially with Loader sims where you can configure where to look for things. On second thought though I see that Saltley already supports the Public Documents folder, so alternatively you cold activate that option and move Saltley's folder over there. Obviously the whole problem doesn't apply to Loader sims anyway, as those by default should install user-modifiable files in to the Public Documents folder anyway. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Last edited: 06/02/2014 at 20:41 by Jan Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 20:52 #55129 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
Or just install/Run as Administrator. Job done.
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| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 21:01 #55130 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:... it probably suffices if you give yourself write permissions to the simulation subdirectories within the Simsig folder, ...No no no, you don't need to give permissions to anything, Windows will happily redirect writes to a user only location which you pointed out above. " said: Or just install/Run as Administrator. Job done.Please don't run anything as Administrator, you're only going to cause yourself more hassle in the long run. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 21:14 #55131 | |
postal
5190 posts |
" said:Please don't run anything as Administrator, you're only going to cause yourself more hassle in the long run.Ben Mine is a single user computer (with a second restricted user account for when it appears at meets) so for everyday use I use the original account I set up when I first got the computer; this has administrator rights. The time can't be too far away when I need to replace the hardware (although I'm hoping that it lasts beyond W8 so that we can see if W9 is more to my taste). Can you give a quick run down (by PM if you think the Forum is not the appropriate place) of the likely hassles if I run everything from a single administrator account on modern Windows when I get a new machine. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 21:16 #55132 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:... it probably suffices if you give yourself write permissions to the simulation subdirectories within the Simsig folder, ...No no no, you don't need to give permissions to anything, Windows will happily redirect writes to a user only location which you pointed out above. " said: Or just install/Run as Administrator. Job done.Please don't run anything as Administrator, you're only going to cause yourself more hassle in the long run. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 21:27 #55133 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
" said:" said:Postal. Having an account as the administrator is fine as is having a restricted user for meets. I have exactly the same thing on my Windows 7 machine. Ben's comments specifically refer to Mark's post about the "run as Administrator" option for programs. Without getting too technical, this is a "Super Administrator" mode you can be used to run individual programs. This has nothing to do with your user account being set as an administrator and there are no problems in setting your new PC up with the exact user setup as you have now.Please don't run anything as Administrator, you're only going to cause yourself more hassle in the long run.Ben Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 06/02/2014 at 23:05 #55136 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:Convdata takes two file names as arguments. It reads the first file and overwrites the second one. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 07/02/2014 at 07:24 #55146 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
When you ran convdata and turned the txt file into a wtt file I suspect you called the wtt file just simply "Saltleyxxx" with no file extension. When you run convdata the wtt file needs to be called "Saltleyxxx.wtt". As a result you have the file with no extension (Last one in your list), rename this as xxx.WTT and you should find it works Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 07/02/2014 at 14:40 #55153 | |
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peterb
451 posts |
" said:The padlock icon is added by Windows and it means that file access is restricted to your user account - in case there are multiple users on your machine, or that drive is shared on the network.I have files for a number of sims (including a TT_analysis.txt for an Exeter loader TT) in C:\<User>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Simsig, which is presumably because of this. Q1. I am on an admin account, with full control over C:\Program Files\Simsig. Is there something that's missing then for files to still be stored in Virtual Store? Q2. Is there a possibility for some kind of patch or workaround to centralise files in old versions. Despite being an experienced user of Simsig and Windows, I still get very lost trying to find where all my files are, if they're not in Program Files. This includes reports such as arrdep.txt/TT_analysis.txt, which don't appear to save to an obvious folder - certainly not Program Files! [though I now suspect they're all in more deep level folders] " said: Program Files, as per usual. This is the first time I have seen this happen in Simsig. The WTT files were created and saved by Saltley just like any other timetables. I created and own the files on my admin account. Since finding them 'padlocked', I've moved them back to Program Files and they are no longer 'padlocked'. Q3. What I've done shouldn't be much different from usual. What might I have done differently this time which it didn't agree with? " said: When you ran convdata and turned the txt file into a wtt file I suspect you called the wtt file just simply "Saltleyxxx" with no file extension. When you run convdata the wtt file needs to be called "Saltleyxxx.wtt"."Error loading timetable information". Thanks guys. Offline for the weekend. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 07/02/2014 at 15:21 #55156 | |
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Jan
889 posts |
" said:Q1. I am on an admin account, with full control over C:\Program Files\Simsig. Is there something that's missing then for files to still be stored in Virtual Store?With UAC activated (and I wouldn't recommend deactivating it), even if your user account has Admin rights, by default your programs will only receive normal user rights. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 07/02/2014 at 16:47 #55162 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
" said:When you ran convdata and turned the txt file into a wtt file I suspect you called the wtt file just simply "Saltleyxxx" with no file extension. When you run convdata the wtt file needs to be called "Saltleyxxx.wtt"."Error loading timetable information". Thanks guys. Offline for the weekend.[/quote] Post the file with no extension name on here and I'll look at it Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 07/02/2014 at 16:49 #55163 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
It's more likely a text file, throw it into an editor
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| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 09/02/2014 at 12:20 #55283 | |
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bill_gensheet
1317 posts |
This may depend on the versions of Convdata and the sim core code build. As extra functionality has been arriving in sim timetabling quite fast of late, ConvData has not always been able to convert the latest versions. 0kb wtr files are often the result, with a very small wtt file as it only got to the error line. Using the latest Convdata might help on a released .exe sim, but first remove all old versions of Convdata scattered about in sim directories. Clean them out before downloading and saving the latest. Bill Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 12/02/2014 at 18:16 #55472 | |
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peterb
451 posts |
Jan - what's UAC? Bill - thanks. I'm using the latest version of the Saltley and the latest version of ConvData available. Ben - X.txt worked, though needlesstosay I'm not feeling as keen to continue with it. Would still appreciate answers to Qs 2 + 3, thanks. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 12/02/2014 at 18:48 #55477 | |
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Jan
889 posts |
" said:Jan - what's UAC?User account control - it's manifestation are those confirmation dialog boxes you get when a program requires admin rights. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 12/02/2014 at 19:16 #55479 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
UAC - User Access Control - A security feature introduced by Microsoft in Windows Vista that prevents unauthorized programs from writing to certain places like c:\Program Files (x86) and as Jan says, what creates all the pop-up messages when you try and install things. A2) No, there is no patch as it's Windows doing what it was designed to do. That said the files you are after are likely to be on one of three places depending on the age of the installer and your OS (unless you have manually changed the installation location but more on that in a minute). The really old installers would but everything in "Program Files". That's a problem for anyone NOT running XP. Sometime after Vista was released, Geoff updated the installer so sims would place their TT files in public documents instead. This situation was made mre complicated as Public Documents is in a different place on an XP machine than on a machine running Windows Vista or later (thanks go to Microsoft for that one too). I don't recall the precise location under XP but under Vista or later, it's c:\Users\Public\Public Documents\SimSig. Further complications arise from the possibility to change the default installation location which Geoff included after complaints from users that they didn't like where the files were being put. If you install everything to the default location, things should all work fine and the files are placed where they should with no problems with the UAC and files getting placed in Virtual Storage. If you have installed them elsewhere by manually choosing a location then that's where problems can occur depending on where you place the files and how aware you are of of the consequences of placing them in the location you selected A3) Without knowing what you did its difficult to say. I note you mention about Exeter's TT analysis being in the virtual store but did you use the default location when installing the loader version of Exeter or did you manually change it to Program Files? If you changed it, that could certainly account for why the TT analysis is in the virtual store area and not with the rest of the sims files. Last edited: 12/02/2014 at 19:17 by Lardybiker Log in to reply |
| Problem with (old version) .WTT files 15/02/2014 at 21:07 #55630 | |
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bill_gensheet
1317 posts |
In XP it is: C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\SimSig Bill Log in to reply |