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| Early running freight trains question 26/02/2014 at 11:13 #56236 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
For those wondering about these acronyms: FCC = First Capital Connect (added to Wiki Glossary). TOC = Train Operating Company. FCC is another TOC. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 26/02/2014 at 11:25 #56237 | |
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AndyG
1835 posts |
" said:I’ve received such calls while playing Exeter. It might be a generic loader feature.It's a generic feature of simulation entry points, just depends on whether the developer includes it in the build. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 05/07/2016 at 19:16 #83424 | |
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Zoe
251 posts |
I have noticed some stone trains on the Berks and Hants gaining time and then not getting looped at all of the timetabled locations, is this due to the train running with a lighter load than it was timetabled for? If this is the case then would the signal boxes have been informed of the load so they would know in advance that it wouldn't need looping or is it just a case of observing the train gaining time and making a decision based on that?
Last edited: 05/07/2016 at 19:18 by Zoe Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 05/07/2016 at 19:49 #83426 | |
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Late Turn
696 posts |
" said:I have noticed some stone trains on the Berks and Hants gaining time and then not getting looped at all of the timetabled locations, is this due to the train running with a lighter load than it was timetabled for? If this is the case then would the signal boxes have been informed of the load so they would know in advance that it wouldn't need looping or is it just a case of observing the train gaining time and making a decision based on that? I can't speak for the Berks & Hants, but we used to have a couple of trains that could gain or even lose time depending on their load. I'd always check the consist (and trailing load) on TRUST to give me a bit of an idea whether it'd be likely be crawling by the summit or not. I'd then keep an eye on its progress, see how it was doing past various locations (experience of dealing with each specific train playing a part), to help me make a decision. At one box, I'd often watch trains over the CCTV crossing four miles away to judge their speed and decide whether I could get them across the junction outside the box without delaying a conflicting move. Of course, a lot also depends on what else is around - no point putting it away if it's not going to get out again without causing even greater problems. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 08:01 #83429 | |
58050
2650 posts |
I can't speak for today since I left the railway industry 10 years ago. But during the mid 1990s through to 2005/2006 we didn't advise Railtrack/Network Rail of each trains individual weight. However when applying for a path using a VSTP form I had to put on the form the type of loco hauling the train, the number of wagons being hauled by the lcomotive, the RA(Route Availability) of the train, the length of the train in metres & SLUs & the maximum speed of the slowest vehicle on the train. Plus the route the train was required to run over. The foprm would be faxed to the control of the lead zone who in turn would liase with all the other zones the train would run over & within usually 30 minutes the form would be faxed back to me in the freight control with the train ID & whether the departure time was acceptable or not. If not then the Network Rail control would advise the nearest time to the one requested when the train would be allowed to depart. Once the train had departed the train consist would be input into TOPS whereby I'd imagine all signal boxes that had a TRUST screen in the box would be able to interogate the system to see the whole train consist of any train which included the train length & weight. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 15:04 #83432 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
" said:I can't speak for today since I left the railway industry 10 years ago. But during the mid 1990s through to 2005/2006 we didn't advise Railtrack/Network Rail of each trains individual weight. However when applying for a path using a VSTP form I had to put on the form the type of loco hauling the train, the number of wagons being hauled by the lcomotive, the RA(Route Availability) of the train, the length of the train in metres & SLUs & the maximum speed of the slowest vehicle on the train. Plus the route the train was required to run over. The foprm would be faxed to the control of the lead zone who in turn would liase with all the other zones the train would run over & within usually 30 minutes the form would be faxed back to me in the freight control with the train ID & whether the departure time was acceptable or not. If not then the Network Rail control would advise the nearest time to the one requested when the train would be allowed to depart.Wouldn't NR need to be explicitly informed of the weight so they can make sure the train has sufficient power, dynamic braking and also meets TOB standards? I recall the San Bernardino train disaster was caused by an employee incorrectly estimating the train's weight on the form. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 16:19 #83433 | |
Steamer
3929 posts |
" said:" said:What does TOB stand for?I can't speak for today since I left the railway industry 10 years ago. But during the mid 1990s through to 2005/2006 we didn't advise Railtrack/Network Rail of each trains individual weight. However when applying for a path using a VSTP form I had to put on the form the type of loco hauling the train, the number of wagons being hauled by the lcomotive, the RA(Route Availability) of the train, the length of the train in metres & SLUs & the maximum speed of the slowest vehicle on the train. Plus the route the train was required to run over. The foprm would be faxed to the control of the lead zone who in turn would liase with all the other zones the train would run over & within usually 30 minutes the form would be faxed back to me in the freight control with the train ID & whether the departure time was acceptable or not. If not then the Network Rail control would advise the nearest time to the one requested when the train would be allowed to depart.Wouldn't NR need to be explicitly informed of the weight so they can make sure the train has sufficient power, dynamic braking and also meets TOB standards? I recall the San Bernardino train disaster was caused by an employee incorrectly estimating the train's weight on the form. As 58050 said, the operator specifies the loco type they'll be using, so NR will issue a set of timings based on that loco and a nominal weight for the number of wagons. As the operator picks up the bills for any delays caused, it's in their interests to be honest with NR about the train's performance characteristics. 58050 was describing the "on the day" method of requesting a train path, so that would tend to be for either 'standard' train formations, light engines or things like odd wagon movements. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 06/07/2016 at 16:20 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 16:51 #83434 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
" said:" said:Theres also an entire rulebook module on train preparation to ensure trains meet all required standards like brake capacity, length limit etc" said:What does TOB stand for?I can't speak for today since I left the railway industry 10 years ago. But during the mid 1990s through to 2005/2006 we didn't advise Railtrack/Network Rail of each trains individual weight. However when applying for a path using a VSTP form I had to put on the form the type of loco hauling the train, the number of wagons being hauled by the lcomotive, the RA(Route Availability) of the train, the length of the train in metres & SLUs & the maximum speed of the slowest vehicle on the train. Plus the route the train was required to run over. The foprm would be faxed to the control of the lead zone who in turn would liase with all the other zones the train would run over & within usually 30 minutes the form would be faxed back to me in the freight control with the train ID & whether the departure time was acceptable or not. If not then the Network Rail control would advise the nearest time to the one requested when the train would be allowed to depart.Wouldn't NR need to be explicitly informed of the weight so they can make sure the train has sufficient power, dynamic braking and also meets TOB standards? I recall the San Bernardino train disaster was caused by an employee incorrectly estimating the train's weight on the form. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 17:52 #83435 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
" said:Tons per Operative Brake. I assume there would be different speed limits for different brake ratios. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 18:10 #83436 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Network Rail publish the freight train loads books which didcate the maximum loading of each loco class over all booked routes. Going back to the days of BR locomotive allocation was dealt with by Regional Traction Controllers (a job I did for the best part of 12 years). It was there responsibility to allocate the provision of power to meet the daily needs. If a loco failed in service it was the regional loco controllers responsibility within there areas of control to dispaych a rescue loco once liasing with the train crew supervisor for a traincrew to man the rescue engine. Within the Regional Control organisation you had freight controllers who managed the movement of freight traffic. The Area Freight Assistant(AFA) would mashal the train up & he would know the nonminal loadings of the various loco classes. For example when I worked at Whitemoor TOPS office in 1988 for an example the loadings for a Cl.6 train from Whitemoor Yard to Doncaster Belmont was as follows:- Cl.20x2 - 990 tonnes trailing Cl.31/1 - 750 tonnes trailing Cl.37/0 - 850 tonnes trailing Cl.47/0 - 1340 tonnes trailing Trains were marshalled in accordance to the 'Marshalling Of Freight Trains' book which detailed the order of the wagons in the consist subject to there TOPS TAG which indicated the destination where the wagon was booked to go to. If an additional train was required then a loco was provided by the loco controller once the load of the train had been established. In a post privatization railway VSTP forms were introduced whereby the Freight Operating Company or FOC would fill out one of these forms & fax it to the lead control for a train ID & path. 'VSTP' stood form Very Short Term Planning & they were a pain to deal with as most of the people on the ground expected things to work like it did on BR whereby when the driver got on the engine the train could depart. Once Railtrack was born that no longer worked & we had to go to extreme lengths lengths to advise everyone we need between 40 - 60 minutes prior notice to deal with these forms. The FOC TOPS company would produce a TOPS train list which would allow the person filling out the form to write down the loco type, actual tonnage of the train, number of wagons on the train & any dangerous goods traffic being conveyed if any. Also a requested route would also be requested on the form. Once that had been rcv'd by the lead Network Rail/Railtrack office they in turn would liase with other offices that the train would end up going over. If agreed they would fax the form back with the booked departure time as well as the train ID. Once the train had departed & the time passed onto the TOPS office they in turn would input all the info into the TOPS system which in turn could be accessed on a TRUST(Train Running System TOPS) screen that Netwrok Rail signal boxes have in them. The signaller can then look at the train consist which shows the individual weight of each wagon on the train, the loco number hauling the train & the train length in metres as well as the 4 character U.N number for any dangerous goods which has to be quoted if there is a dangerous goods incident. This 4 character number tells the emergency services what kind of product they are dealing with so the hazardous material can be dealt with by using the correct equipment. There is no direct chat between the freight controls & individual signal boxes. The FOC would speak to the Network Rail control office where the train was & the Network Rail control in turn would speak to there signallers. In fact on todays freight railway loco controllers no longer exist, the allocation of motive power is dealt with by the controllers dealing with there respected commodities. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: kbarber |
| Early running freight trains question 06/07/2016 at 18:41 #83437 | |
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JamesN
1580 posts |
" said:I have noticed some stone trains on the Berks and Hants gaining time and then not getting looped at all of the timetabled locations, is this due to the train running with a lighter load than it was timetabled for? If this is the case then would the signal boxes have been informed of the load so they would know in advance that it wouldn't need looping or is it just a case of observing the train gaining time and making a decision based on that?On the B&H currently Hungerford UPL is signed out of use, and Woodborough isn't favoured for looping heavy stone trains on the up as it is at the bottom of the long climb to Savernake summit. The other issue is often length - these stone trains can be 100+ SLU and there really aren't many places they can be looped. DBC will often call up the Train Running Controller asking to run over-length, this is will depend on margin/path. Most of these stone trains run Class 6 these days, which will easily run ahead of the Newbury stopper and only put a minimal amount of time into a Fast Bedwyn. That gives the train running controllers and the signalmen options to keep it going if it's long. Log in to reply |
| Early running freight trains question 07/07/2016 at 16:49 #83453 | |
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MrBitsy
121 posts |
" said:Freight does run early on Network Rail.Only once you have made absolutely sure it will not hit a passenger, you have permission from control AND you are not of a nervous disposition :-) 
TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford Log in to reply The following user said thank you: flabberdacks |
| Early running freight trains question 07/07/2016 at 17:34 #83457 | |
MJD
149 posts |
" said:" said:LOLFreight does run early on Network Rail.Only once you have made absolutely sure it will not hit a passenger, you have permission from control AND you are not of a nervous disposition :-) :laugh: Mike. Log in to reply |