Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader

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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 06/03/2014 at 18:13 #56635
Finger
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220 posts 		Hello,

while using the new loader sims, I came across some strange behavior when editing the timetable. Particularly, duplicated trains don't seem to work correctly, marking a train unentered doesn't make it appear (particularly nasty problem on a KX 1985 600 start timetable). Also, editing a train's entry location (eg. to make a train normally being formed from another service enter) doesn't make it enter.

For a demonstration, see this video.


[video width=640 height=360 type=youtube]GlFDzg9LuXU[/video]
Last edited: 06/03/2014 at 18:20 by Finger
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 06/03/2014 at 18:33 #56637
Danny252
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1461 posts 		Given that the Sim was running at the time, I'm not surprised this doesn't work properly - I wouldn't have thought that tools like duplication are intended to be used when the game is unpaused.
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 06/03/2014 at 18:46 #56642
TimTamToe
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656 posts 		" said:
Hello,

while using the new loader sims, I came across some strange behavior when editing the timetable. Particularly, duplicated trains don't seem to work correctly,

edits to timetables using f4 only have an effect on trains unentered or when the timetable is save d and reopened again. Like Danny said the tools should be used when paused. Duplication is useful when writing timetables, but I cannot say I've ever tried using it during a run through of a sim.

Gareth
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 06/03/2014 at 19:19 #56643
GeoffM
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6287 posts
Online 		Which version was this?
SimSig Boss
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 06/03/2014 at 23:39 #56653
Finger
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220 posts 		" said:
Which version was this?

4.0.27 (I've written it in the description of the video, not here, sorry).
Quote:
Given that the Sim was running at the time, I'm not surprised this doesn't work properly - I wouldn't have thought that tools like duplication are intended to be used when the game is unpaused.

And have you actually corroborated what you're saying? Because if you did, you'd see that

1) It works just as badly when sim is paused
2) It works very well (except for the "mark unentered" command which doesn't exist there) in the old KingsX.exe (actually this gave me the idea that it should work in new loader).
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 06:09 #56656
BarryM
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2158 posts 		No Bug! If you duplicate a service where the original entry time is 00:00. it will not update the entry time even though you have updated the duplication time. The entry time needs to be >00:00 to update.

Barry
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 13:13 #56663
Finger
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220 posts 		" said:
No Bug! If you duplicate a service where the original entry time is 00:00. it will not update the entry time even though you have updated the duplication time. The entry time needs to be >00:00 to update.

Huh? I never complained about that (in fact I kind of guessed this would be the case). The problem is the duplicated trains are listed fine in F4, but enter under the identity of, and in time of their original trains (cf. the end of the video).
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 14:11 #56664
postal
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5190 posts 		Just to rule out one possible cause, are there any rules in the TT which would preclude a train from entering? In that case, the train and any duplicate will not enter until the rule(s) is/are satisfied.

I've spent quite a bit of time TT testing using the loader; after some core code problems with train entry and rules were sorted it has not been a problem. Mark train unentered, delete any relevant rules (remembering to re-write them after the train has entered) and the train (if due or late) has entered at the start of the next sim minute so can't understand what is happening here.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
Last edited: 07/03/2014 at 14:15 by postal
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 16:33 #56667
Finger
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220 posts 		Quote:
... are there any rules in the TT which would preclude a train from entering?

No there are no rules, the sim is started as a tabula rasa (without a tt).
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 19:20 #56675
postal
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5190 posts 		" said:
Quote:
... are there any rules in the TT which would preclude a train from entering?

No there are no rules, the sim is started as a tabula rasa (without a tt).
This maybe pre-empted by your video upload, but living at the end of a long copper wire from our local exchange I have neither the time nor the will to wait while anything I am expected to watch downloads, buffers, pauses, buffers, downloads, buffers etc. etc.

I'm now confused (again). Your opening post refers to a 0600 Start 1985KX TT. Are you trying to create this by opening with no TT, going to Timetable - Merge, merging the KX 1985 TT from the downloads section and then deleting/modifying trains due to enter before 0600? I've never tried the TT merge with a loader sim, but if I recall correctly in pre-loader days this would sometimes produce problems similar to those you describe.

Whenever I have to create a later start TT from a core TT, I start the sim with the core TT, then edit the TT accordingly with the sim paused. This is reasonably easy if you order the trains by entry time. Finally I amend the start time in the front page of the TT, save the revised TT and reload with the new TT to make sure it works.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 21:39 #56679
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		There is no merge going on here. The original post mentions the 1985 0600 start TT but that TT is not actually being used at all or even referenced in the video. It's also got nothing to do with how the TT is being generated. As far as I can tell, the process being used is completely normal but there are some strange goings on....

What appears to be happening is the sim is started with no TT at all and trains are then added manually using the F4 timetable options. Initially the sim is paused and a train using the TT editor is added with a reporting number of '0000'. At this point its the ONLY train in the TT. This duly enters when the sim is unpaused as expected....so far so good.

While the sim is still running, a second train is then added by duplicating the first train, but with a new reporting number (0002), and a time increment of 20 minutes (it ends up with an entry time of 00:00 because the original trains entry time was 00:00 and the time increment doesn't work on any train with an entry time of 00:00, as we know). As soon as this new train is added, it enters the sim BUT with a reporting number of '0000' which is incorrect. Looking at the TT list (F4), train 0003 is shown as having entered and the actual sim train list (F2) shows two trains labelled '0000'.

The next step involves marking the first train '0000' as being unentered. This is done after 38 minutes of sim time having passed. But nothing happens. However, creating a brand new train from scratch (not duplicated from another train) called '0003' whose entry time is manually set to 01:00 and adding it at sim time of 1 hour and 6 minutes causes 2 trains to enter. The train '0000' previously marked as unentered appears first and once he's routed out of the way, it's immediately by the new train '0003'.

Lastly a duplicate of train of "0003" is created with a reporting number 0005 and a time increment of 30 minutes. It's entry time is thus set to 1:30 but the sim is still only at 1:26 when the train is actually added and it still enters immediately as '0000'. Not only is this before its scheduled entry time but its also the wrong reporting number as it should be '0005'.

The one caveat to all this is that, apart from the first train, all the trains are added while the sim is running. Not only is it running but it's doing so at a very, very fast pace. In the length of the video (3 minutes and 22 seconds), the sim gets to an hour and 30 minutes sim time. Now, whether this has any affect on whats happening I do not know.

The two things I would try would be
1) Try the same thing again except run the sim at a lot slower pace, say 3:1, and see what happens.
2) Save the TT with the 4 trains as is then reload the sim using that saved TT and see if it then operates as expected or it still does the same thing.
Last edited: 07/03/2014 at 21:57 by Lardybiker
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Bugs in the F4 window behavior in the loader 07/03/2014 at 22:07 #56681
AndyG
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1835 posts 		I suspect that the duplicator doesn't work correctly is related to the non-standard TDs being used,ie '0000' isn't the standard 'NANN' format and the increment isn't valid.
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Last edited: 07/03/2014 at 22:09 by AndyG
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