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| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 19/03/2014 at 23:28 #57402 | |
Underwood
746 posts |
Hello all, With this new Loader version, can you now create your own block and highlight the line in 'blue' just like in the line/platform block scenarios that come with some simulations? I ask as I noticed there was such on the Hitchin Flyover by someone who was hosting a multiplayer on KX Loader, as it was the 2012 TT, the time before the flyover was open, but platform 0 was in use. However I noticed later upon loading the sim that a Hitchin Flyover blocked scenario does not exist, which makes me wonder if this was actually user created, or I may be missing something? Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 19/03/2014 at 23:38 #57403 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Yes, this feature is actually present in slightly older sims as well (NWC for instance). You create the possession in F11 - Track circuits - Isolations (there are several types). Note that this doesn't, however, prevent trains from running there. To accomplish that (ie. to close the line), you need to set a temporary speed restriction of 0mph there.
Last edited: 20/03/2014 at 00:04 by Finger Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Underwood |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 08:38 #57425 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
A little off topic, but can anyone tell me what the different types of isolation mean? Thanks. Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 10:38 #57434 | |
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John
884 posts |
ENG (engineering, shown in blue) is used to indicate a track possession. TI (traction isolation, shown in pink) is used to indicate that the traction current has been isolated. I have no idea what BET signifies, though. Anyone? Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 10:51 #57436 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
I see it now, thank you very much! I've heard of BET somewhere, Block something something? Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 11:01 #57439 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
" said:I have no idea what BET signifies, though. Anyone?"Blocked to Electric Traction" I believe. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 12:31 #57446 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:TI (traction isolation, shown in pink) is used to indicate that the traction current has been isolated. Does it mean electric trains can't run there, or can they run there eg. if the isolated part is short enough (let's say, < 1 km)? Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 14:18 #57456 | |
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Underwood
746 posts |
I wonder that, but I wonder what the difference is between that and BET? I've been on a train through Kentish Town before, coasted through the station and surrounding area. Had to stop to prop the Class 319 panto back up then wait for the compressor to build up the air pressure. A diesel loco however (Class 57) was on hand at St Pancras should any 319 come to a stop in the isolated section Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 18:01 #57479 | |
DriverCurran
683 posts |
BET is indeed Blocked to Electric Traction, the implication (as to my understanding and willing and waiting to be corrected by somebody more knowledgeable) is that diesel traction may pass but electric traction is prohibited. Take for example on West Hampstead, the OHLE comes down between Luton and Luton Airport Parkway on the fast lines, until a full repair is undertaken the fast lines would then become to any form of electric traction, but HST and Meridians would still be permitted to run on those lines through the affected sections. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Last edited: 20/03/2014 at 18:01 by DriverCurran Reason: Rewording of sentence Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 19:44 #57483 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
So what's the difference between TI and BET?
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| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 20:08 #57484 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
An isolation is a formal procedure where the electricity supply - either overhead or third rail - is switched off and earthed, typically so work can be carried out safely. A "Block to Electric Traction" (BTET) is where certain routes are not permitted to be taken by electric trains for whatever reason but are still open to non-electric traction. Putting on a BTET is part of the process for imposing an isolation but a block to electrics does not necessarily imply that the electricity supply has been or will be isolated - you can have a BTET with the wires or third rail still live. BTETs and isolations are arranged between the Signaller (or Shift Manager for large signalboxes) and the Electrical Control Room Operator and the requirements for the Signaller are set out in the individual BTET Instructions for each signalbox, panel or workstation. It's part of my job to produce and amend these instructions for Scotland. I can post some examples if anyone is interested.
Last edited: 21/03/2014 at 00:13 by Ron_J Reason: Corrected spelling! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: John, DriverCurran |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 20:21 #57485 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I'd be very interested in some examples.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 20/03/2014 at 20:26 #57486 | |
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John
884 posts |
Yes please, Ron. 
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| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 00:07 #57498 | |
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Essexgirl
41 posts |
ENG is indeed used to highlight the area covered by engineering work, usually a Line Blockage or a T3 possession, the overlay colour is blue. TI is used to indication a traction current isolation, and the overlay is cloured pink. You can have both an ENG and TI overlay on together and you end up with blue and pink stripes. It is worth remembering that these overlays are for indication only and do not prevent trains entering these sections, thats what reminders are for. BTET is a Block To Electric Traction, this is used when a line is to be blocked to electric trains, but the traction current may or may not be turned off, and the line is still open for non electric traction. On an IECC workstation this is coloured pink (same as for TI), but is dashed rather than a solid colour. Hope this answers your query Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 00:34 #57500 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:It is worth remembering that these overlays are for indication only and do not prevent trains entering these sections, thats what reminders are for. Actually, reminders don't prevent a train entering either. Quote: BTET is a Block To Electric Traction, this is used when a line is to be blocked to electric trains, but the traction current may or may not be turned off, and the line is still open for non electric traction. Yes, but when does this happen (THAT is the question). To me, it seems the catenary might be either nonexisting or turned off, which would be an isolation and depending on the nature of the stretch involved might or might not be run with electric trains. Or it could be eg. damaged to the point where it could damage the pantograph, and in that case, I suspect it is likely to damage a diesel train as well (when it's torn or somesuch). And even if it was certain that it couldn't damage a train running below, but can't be passed with a pantograph, the electric trains could just run with their pantograph lowered. I just can't see any use case for it. Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 00:51 #57501 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
I can't speak for third rail but in my experience a block to electrics will generally be imposed without an isolation where OLE has been damaged (but not so that it is foul to gauge), become electrically defective or requires to be examined. For example, a defective or damaged section insulator may cause dangerous arcing if you try to run an electric train through it but have absolutely no effect on the running of diesel trains. You might not want to isolate the section until immediately before you are ready to carry out repairs (perhaps due to the feeding arrangements meaning you also need to isolate a number of other subsections) but there would be no reason to prevent non-electric traffic from passing in the mean time. Another example would be a permanently earthed subsection - these exist for various reasons but you absolutely can't run an electric train into one without causing a load of grief, so a PES will be blocked to electric traction and shown on screen - or panel, they use yellow magnetic strips - with the appropriate overlays. Believe me when I say that just because you can't see why a BTET overlay is necessary doesn't mean it isn't.
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| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 00:53 #57502 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
PS. Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms!
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| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 02:00 #57504 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Quote:For example, a defective or damaged section insulator may cause dangerous arcing if you try to run an electric train through it but have absolutely no effect on the running of diesel trains Yeah, that's why you order electric trains to lower the pantograph over that site. Quote: Another example would be a permanently earthed subsection - these exist for various reasons but you absolutely can't run an electric train into one without causing a load of grief Same thing. To see what I mean, look at the attached photo. It is a photograph of a bridge building site over an electric track. The driver is first ordered to lower the pantograph, then there is a neutral section, then a grounded section through the construction site and at the end, the driver just raises the pantograph and drives away. (There is a slight complication to that that still in the grounded section, there is a station. Stopper trains just didn't stop there when the OHLE was grounded). See this photo. Quote: Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms! Done regularly here, over stretches as far as 10 km long. Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 03:15 #57506 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Quote:And if that's not a recipe for regularly stranded trains, I don't know what is.Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms! Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 12:45 #57517 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:" said:Quote:And if that's not a recipe for regularly stranded trains, I don't know what is.Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms! To be fair, that's just a curiosity - and is done under live catenary. So no stranding ensues. The reason for doing it is that the trains are Pendolinos, whose asynchronous traction motors don't play nicely with the track circuits on that particular stretch - therefore there's a speed restriction for them when pulling. The drivers just chose to coast at higher speeds rather than pulling and having to obey the speed restriction. Normally the trains are coasting over stretches of hundreds of meters at most. Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 12:56 #57518 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:" said:Hundreds of meters is fine - but 10km seems ridiculous! Mind, I was assuming it was coasting due to having no (energised) wires at all, which probably isn't actually the case." said:Quote:And if that's not a recipe for regularly stranded trains, I don't know what is.Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms! Last edited: 21/03/2014 at 12:56 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 16:58 #57528 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
" said:" said:Where does this happen, out of interest?" said:Quote:And if that's not a recipe for regularly stranded trains, I don't know what is.Coasting with the pan lowered is a whole other can of worms! "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 21/03/2014 at 18:52 #57535 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
Quote:Where does this happen, out of interest? Here Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| SimSig Loader and blocking lines 22/03/2014 at 15:00 #57579 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
Any chance of a host do demonstrate?
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