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Copyright 20/03/2014 at 04:25 #57415
BarryM
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Is it permissable to attach a pdf file of a Quail Map Company's 1990 map to a topic in the Forum?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Copyright 20/03/2014 at 04:49 #57416
GeoffM
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" said:
Is it permissable to attach a pdf file of a Quail Map Company's 1990 map to a topic in the Forum?

Barry
Not really, though in copyright law there is provision for limited fair use with attribution I believe - as in a very small part of the map with appropriate links or whatever to buy the full version. Those with more legal minds could describe better than I.

SimSig Boss
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Copyright 20/03/2014 at 09:07 #57428
clive
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" said:
" said:
Is it permissable to attach a pdf file of a Quail Map Company's 1990 map to a topic in the Forum?
Not really, though in copyright law there is provision for limited fair use with attribution I believe
The UK doesn't have "fair use", it has "fair dealing" and these are not the same. I'm rusty enough that I wouldn't like to say more without refreshing my memory.

Short version: don't do it.

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Copyright 20/03/2014 at 10:21 #57432
welshdragon
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Trackmaps explicitly say no, you can't even scan them for your personal use.
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Copyright 20/03/2014 at 12:57 #57449
jc92
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" said:
Trackmaps explicitly say no, you can't even scan them for your personal use.
woops! i seem to recall photocopies of the 1990 LM quail being issued at last years derby meet to assist people with orienteering NWC when it was released?

"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 02:29 #58012
Muzer
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" said:
Trackmaps explicitly say no, you can't even scan them for your personal use.
Is this actually enforcible? I'm not a lawyer, but isn't it effectively your right to make personal backups of things under EU law? Or does this only apply to certain media/is it overridden in the UK?

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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 10:45 #58018
welshdragon
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Yes and no, On a personal use basis you can do as you see fit, so long as those maps never reach public domain.
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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 13:41 #58021
kbarber
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I'd need to double check (m'learned friend has gone out) but I suspect you would be on dodgy ground here.

I think I'm right in saying there is no general right to copy for personal use. The question of copies reaching the public domain is pretty much irrelevant to the (lack of) legal right. There are possibilities in the various copyright acts for copying for academic research under what's known as the 'fair dealing' provisions. But as this pretty obviously wouldn't be for academic purposes those provisions don't apply.

I don't know if there is a right to make backups but, if there is, I think it would probably apply only to computer programs. Again, that doesn't apply here. I suspect there may not even be a right to make a backup; why would program developers include a specific provision allowing copying for backup purposes in their licence agreement otherwise? (You do read your licence agreement thoroughly before you install every piece of software don't you?...)

On the other hand, copying for personal use would be pretty much undetectable in most cases, so enforcement would be difficult in the extreme. Unless I'm much mistaken, it's also true to say that copyright enforcement is a civil rather than a criminal matter. (In other words, you'd be sued rather than prosecuted and the penalty if you lost would be payment of damages - plus legal costs of course - to the copyright owner rather than payment of a fine to the state.) Even if an infringement were detected, the likelihood of legal action would relate to the level of damage that could be alleged to have been suffered. A photocopy of one page of an atlas that the infringer has already legitimately purchased wouldn't be worth much in damages. A court might decide they don't want to encourage that sort of legal action and award damages (and indeed costs) accordingly; I think it might even be open to them to award 'contemptuous damages' (such things have certainly happened in defamation cases) and make no order regarding costs. On the other hand a good barrister might convince them that allowing one person to do it now could open the floodgates and lead to large numbers of people who would've purchased two or more atlases only buying one; if that happened the court might well award substantial damages as a way of discouraging copying.

If you think no-one will ever know you've made an infringing copy, and if you don't have a conscience that would nag you, then you can probably get away with it - but one should never assume that will always be true and if you did come unstuck it could be painful. You pays your money...

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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 14:42 #58022
welshdragon
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Here's a link to UK Copyright Service's factsheet: Link

Here is a selection of the fatcsheet, used under the CC-BY-NC (ND) license:

Quote:
Using the work of others

You may use the work of others if:
Quote:

Copyright has expired.
Your use of the work is fair dealing as defined under the 1988 Copyright Designs and Patents Act (UK).
Your use of the work is covered under a licensing scheme that you have subscribed to and the copyright holder is a member of.
The copyright holder has given you permission.

Quote:
What is fair dealing?

Fair dealing is a term used to describe some limited activities that are allowed without infringing copyright. Briefly these are as follows:

Research and private study

Copying parts of a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work or of a typographical arrangement of a published edition for the purpose of research or private study is allowed under the following conditions:
The copy is made for the purposes of research or private study.
The copy is made for non-commercial purposes.
The source of the material is acknowledged.
The person making the copy does not make copies of the material available for a number of people.

Quote:
How much of a work can I use under fair dealing?

There is no simple formula or percentage that can be applied. You may have seen figures like ‘up to 10%’ or ‘no more than 400 words’ quoted in some publications, but such figures are at best a rough guide and can be misleading. What is acceptable will vary from one work to another.

In cases that have come to trial what is clear is that it is the perceived importance of the copied content rather than simply the quantity that counts. Judges hearing such cases often have to make an objective decision on whether the use is justified or excessive.

Last edited: 30/03/2014 at 14:43 by welshdragon
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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 15:41 #58024
Peter Bennet
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And here's a link to the consolidated UK legislation as at 2007 produced by the Intellectual Property Office (part of BIS).


Peter

I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Copyright 30/03/2014 at 16:06 #58025
Danny252
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" said:
There are possibilities in the various copyright acts for copying for academic research under what's known as the 'fair dealing' provisions.
Where have you found the term "academic research"? I find it very had to believe that "academic" research is specially enshrined under law, but "normal" research isn't.

In fact, I can't actually see a good way to distinguish between the two in a legal context! Does "academic" mean it has to be done in a university? That would unfairly discriminate against anyone in research institutes, industrial research. Does it have to be done as part of your job? There's a lot of research out there done by people in their free time (Einstein would be a classic example for some of his work!), but is this somehow "inferior"?

(This is all an aside - you might even say it's a bit academic! - as the term doesn't appear in either of the guides linked to above this post)

Last edited: 30/03/2014 at 16:19 by Danny252
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Copyright 31/03/2014 at 12:48 #58067
kbarber
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1712 posts
" said:
" said:
There are possibilities in the various copyright acts for copying for academic research under what's known as the 'fair dealing' provisions.
Where have you found the term "academic research"? I find it very had to believe that "academic" research is specially enshrined under law, but "normal" research isn't.

In fact, I can't actually see a good way to distinguish between the two in a legal context! Does "academic" mean it has to be done in a university? That would unfairly discriminate against anyone in research institutes, industrial research. Does it have to be done as part of your job? There's a lot of research out there done by people in their free time (Einstein would be a classic example for some of his work!), but is this somehow "inferior"?

(This is all an aside - you might even say it's a bit academic! - as the term doesn't appear in either of the guides linked to above this post)
Sorry, bit of loose language. Tim often tells me I should say what I mean. (Hint: never try and argue with a lawyer...)

This reminds me of a discussion at the local radio club when I used to dabble in amateur radio many years ago. The secretary was met with ribaldry when he stated (quite correctly, I should say) that we were a learned society!

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Copyright 31/03/2014 at 21:07 #58107
clive
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" said:
" said:
There are possibilities in the various copyright acts for copying for academic research under what's known as the 'fair dealing' provisions.
Where have you found the term "academic research"? I find it very had to believe that "academic" research is specially enshrined under law, but "normal" research isn't.
The Act says "Fair dealing ... for the purposes of research for a non-commercial purpose" and "fair dealing ... for the purposes of private study".

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Copyright 31/03/2014 at 21:14 #58109
clive
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" said:
I don't know if there is a right to make backups but, if there is, I think it would probably apply only to computer programs. Again, that doesn't apply here. I suspect there may not even be a right to make a backup; why would program developers include a specific provision allowing copying for backup purposes in their licence agreement otherwise? (You do read your licence agreement thoroughly before you install every piece of software don't you?...)
Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 section 50A:

(1) It is not an infringement of copyright for a lawful user of a copy of a computer program to make any back up copy of it which it is necessary for him to have for the purposes of his lawful use.
(2) For the purposes of this section and sections 50B, 50BA and 50C a person is a lawful user of a computer program if (whether under a licence to do any acts restricted by the copyright in the program or otherwise), he has a right to use the program.
(3) Where an act is permitted under this section, it is irrelevant whether or not there exists any term or condition in an agreement which purports to prohibit or restrict the act (such terms being, by virtue of section 296A, void).

I can't find a right to backup electronic documents that aren't computer programs.

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