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| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 28/03/2014 at 22:57 #57967 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I'd like some guidance from the forum on this. I'm not clear just what SimSig regards as a change to its TT. Sometimes I get the message "The driver has been told of the amended timetable" after doing a minor edit, and this needn't be saved, but if I encounter some major problem such as a possible bug in the timetable, I might want to leave that one in for next time. Saving the amended TT also means that now I end up with two or more versions of the TT, one in the working folder that's been amended, and the other (original version) in my download folder. How do others manage this? Thanks in advance. Last edited: 28/03/2014 at 22:57 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 28/03/2014 at 23:06 #57969 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
Edits made via F2 are carried over to the next session, however they only affect the train in the simulation. No change is made to the timetable in F4. Any edits to the timetable via the Timetable Editor need to be saved (Timetable> 'Save As' in the clock window), and these changes will still be there when you start a new simulation with that timetable. I don't know whether changes to the timetable are remembered for the current game when you just save the game and exit. I'm fairly sure they are, but if you want to keep the changes I'd err on the side of caution. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 28/03/2014 at 23:07 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 28/03/2014 at 23:22 #57971 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
I'm fairly sure that an F4 edited TT is saved embedded within a simulation save. See Wiki I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 28/03/2014 at 23:27 #57972 | |
postal
5190 posts |
When you open a sim and assign a TT, that TT is taken into the data used to run the sim. This can lead to confusion and problems if you are not careful about how and when you save both sim snapshot and TT. If you edit the TT through F2, the underlying data in the TT is not changed and the change only applies to the TT of that particular train in that particular run of the sim. Even if you save a snapshot while the train is in sim and reload, the change will only apply to that train while it is on that transit through the sim. If you edit the TT through F4, that changes the underlying data the sim is holding in parallel with the change in the TT but at that point nothing is saved so the copies of both sim and TT on your hard disk remain as they were when you loaded the sim. If you then save a snapshot that saves the revised data in the sim version of the TT but not the version of the TT on the hard disk. To keep the versions of the TT in the sim and on the had disk in sync. you need to save the TT under its original name as well as saving a snapshot before exiting the sim. If you save a snapshot but do not save the TT (or vice versa), you will then have two different sets of TT data (1 in the sim and 1 on the hard disk) which are trading under the same name but which have different data. If you are not careful at this point and have done any significant TT editing you can lose all of the changes. This occurs if you save the TT after making the changes but do not save the snapshot. When you reload the last snapshot saved before the TT edits, then that is the edit-free TT that you get. Saving the TT after that point overwrites your edited version and your TT editing work in the last session is lost. Not sure if I've explained that very clearly but you need to think about the underlying status of the TT in both snapshot and on hard disk when you are deciding whether to save the TT at the same time as you are saving a snapshot in order to exit the sim. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 28/03/2014 at 23:29 #57973 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
I got the knack of TT amending and saving some time ago and use it regularly. I edit the entries via the main TT list, then when I close the sim and get the 'Timetable not saved do you want to save it?' message, I click yes and then save the whole TT under a slightly different name, by adding something like 'amendment1' or similar. Then when restarting the sim, you're given the option of selecting the altered TT. Hope this makes sense.
Last edited: 28/03/2014 at 23:30 by delticfan Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 29/03/2014 at 04:28 #57977 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
I think one very important fact is key to understanding all of this: normally, a timetable file (.wtt file) on disk is read at exactly one time: when you start a new game. It is also read when you explicitly use the Timetable→Open (merge with current) option, but during usual play, saving and loading games, editing with F2 and F4, the .wtt file never has any impact whatsoever. The moment the sim boots up for a new game, from that point forward, the .ssg file is a completely self-contained blob with everything you need to continue play as long as you have the sim itself. You could even delete the .wtt file and reload the .ssg and the sim would never notice (yes, I tested this to be absolutely certain). When you quit and SimSig asks if you want to save the amended timetable, what it’s asking is not whether you want to keep, versus throw away, your timetable edits! It’s actually asking whether you want to export your timetable changes to a .wtt file, versus keep them only in your .ssg. So, if your timetable edits are to fix bugs, you might want to export to a .wtt so you can take advantage of the fixes in fresh playthroughs by choosing that timetable. If your timetable edits are to fix problems brought on by e.g. points failures, you probably don’t want to export to a .wtt because the timetable changes don’t make any sense in the context of starting fresh playthroughs. The difference between F2 and F4 is a confusing additional dimension, but is mostly independent. On its own, it’s also pretty simple to understand: in F4, you see a database of every train that might be scheduled to pass through the sim in the entire playthrough (past, present, and future). You can edit any of those timetables any time you wish. When a train enters the sim, the driver prints out a sheet of paper with a copy of their timetable from the F4 database, puts it on their dashboard, and starts driving. From that point forward, you can still use F4 all you want, but it won’t magically change what’s on the sheet of paper. To do that, you call up the driver and ask to amend the timetable, which happens through F2. Remember that everything I described in this paragraph lives in the context of the first two paragraphs: the .ssg is fully self-contained and contains both the whole F4 database and also all the drivers’ sheets of paper you edit through F2. Neither of these things has anything to do with the .wtt file, except that the F4 database is copied from the .wtt file when you start a new game. The only wrinkle is that if you export a .wtt file from the sim (using Timetable→Save As, or saying yes when asked to save the amended timetable), what gets written out is the contents of the F4 database. So, that database doesn’t reflect anything you might have done with F2, unless of course you also made the same edit through F4. That means, if you’re disciplined, you can fix bugs in a timetable by editing with F4 (and also F2, if the train has entered), while also working around local random failures using F2 only, and end up with something worth exporting to .wtt for future playthroughs—only the bugfixes will be reflected. The wiki article mostly describes this, but I found it a bit confusing. For example, the diagram has a box labelled “saved simulation” which includes timetable edits made by F4, but it doesn’t show that saving a .ssg also includes edits made with F2, so that a reload results in the same train driving the same route it would have before saving. Which does not mean that edits made with F2 overwrite the F4 database in the .ssg—they are completely separate—only that both pieces are included in a .ssg. Hope this is clear (and correct—SimSig experts, please correct me if not)! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Airvan00 |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 29/03/2014 at 08:00 #57979 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
I never realised it was so complicated. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 29/03/2014 at 08:25 #57980 | |
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JamesN
1575 posts 
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Sounds about right to me
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| Should one save amended timetables on exit? 29/03/2014 at 21:15 #57998 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thank you for all your responses.
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