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| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 07/04/2014 at 10:39 #58517 | |
Andrew G
548 posts |
Wiki advises not to use these except for long trains (see below) which I can understand as it might block route from a Siding or an alternative route from another Platform. However this means it is not procedurally correct to over set a route when you have two departures in quick succession as the signal in rear will clear before the signal in advance is off. Is it the case in real life that the signallers will over set as the driver can see that the next signal is still On (except when starting mid platform) and that it is just a limitation of the simulation that the train will move up to the Platform Starter? Or does the Centre Panel Signaller wait until the route out of the Station is clear? Several platforms at New Street have a short signal section at the end of the platform. Don't route right up to the platform end unless it is a very long train. When the train is ready to start, signal to the end of the platform and then out to the next signal. Note that there is no train describer berth for the end platform signals so the TD won't step until the train passes the end of the platform. Note also that a train will not depart New Street until it has a proceed signal aspect out of the station. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 07/04/2014 at 10:59 #58518 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I am led to believe that local instruction at New Street is only to dispatch a train on a green aspect.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 07/04/2014 at 17:10 #58531 | |
TimB2010
77 posts |
" said:Wiki advises not to use these except for long trains (see below) which I can understand as it might block route from a Siding or an alternative route from another Platform.Trains departing New Street will not accept the indication of the intermediate signals (on platforms where they exist) until the signal at the end of the platform is also off. It is worth noting that when routing from one platform to another prior to departure, (eg. platform 7A to 8A), the end signal which is not routed (7A) would not clear, but the end signal on platform 8A would. Hope this helps, Tim Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Andrew G |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 07/04/2014 at 20:05 #58536 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
It worth noting that the short section signals are approach controlled unless the end platform signal is off. Regards Eddy Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Andrew G, TimB2010 |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 09/04/2014 at 13:29 #58617 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts |
Thanks Tim - I have watched out for the cross platform moves and see what you mean. Eddy - not so sure you are right - I travelled back from New St a few weeks ago and saw 225 on P6B Off with 226 On before the train arrived. I go through New Street circa twice a month - will need to keep my eyes open. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 10/04/2014 at 18:24 #58652 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Andy G They are approach controlled. You would not want to display a green at the mid platform signals even if it is only 10mph running. The only way to get a green signal on the station approaches NS154, NS151,NS244' NS243 is to clear all the way through the station not done very often usually for freight trains Eddy Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 10/04/2014 at 21:23 #58663 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts |
" said:Andy GThink we will need to disagree on this one. If you are right then there is an issue with the simulation. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 10/04/2014 at 21:25 #58664 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts |
" said:Andy GThink we will need to disagree on this one. If you are right there is an issue with the simulation. Last edited: 10/04/2014 at 21:26 by Andrew G Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 10/04/2014 at 21:28 #58665 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts |
Eddy, Think we might need to disagree on this one, or there is an issue with the simulation. Andrew 
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| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 11:34 #58758 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Andrew G I can assure you that the track circuit between the mid platform signal needs to be occupied for the short section signal to be cleared unless the platform starting signal is off. I have checked the signalling diagrams to be sure. just for the record I was a Technician Officer at Birmingham New St PSB for 10 years and currently a signal asset engineer. Eddy Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Andrew G |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 15:49 #58769 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts 
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Confirmed, and it will be fixed. Actually some platforms (lower numbered ones) do have this already.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 17:26 #58774 | |
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Andrew G
548 posts |
" said:Andrew GEddy, Thanks for taking the time to comment on this, including checking the signalling diagrams. I have noted Geoff has a fix in course. Kind regards. Andrew Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Hooverman |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 19:36 #58777 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Andrew G No problem Geoff I am not complaining just noting that New St panel does not have TORR apart from Proof house and then only after it was re-signalled and remodelled in 2000. The only signals that have comprehensive approach locking are the ones with an auto facility. Also I don't know if its possible on Simsig but a lot of the signals have 2 buttons 1 yellow and 1 red some have 1 button coloured half red and half yellow the difference is with 2 buttons the signaller decides on the class of route and with 1 button the interlocking decides on the class of route no warner routes in the station because no overlaps Eddy Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 20:10 #58781 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
All of those features are used in other sims I believe. Another question worth asking, as I looked most of the Western sims up myself when helping Peter Bennet out with Westbury, is what are the timings on the approach locking for each signal? Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 21:52 #58789 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Stephen, no timer just the track occupied plus lamp or controls. Eddy Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 12/04/2014 at 22:21 #58792 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
Approach locking must be timed - once you pull the route the white lights will stay until the route times out. I think we may be thinking of different things - I agree with you about the signals approach releasing from red. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 13/04/2014 at 10:24 #58808 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Stephen The approach locking is 2 minutes for main signals. Eddy Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 15/04/2014 at 11:55 #58921 | |
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TimB2010
77 posts |
" said:It was certainly the case in my time working on the platforms that intermediate signals could be cleared to a Y aspect with the platform signal still showing R. This feature was very useful when you wanted to take a train to the extreme end of the platform, perhaps to fit another longer service in behind, or if you had an extremely long service (normally a railtour/charter with loco and coaches) approaching, as it would cause the driver to proceed as far along the platform as possible. It was also possible to ring the signaller and ask for a train to be drawn along a platform to facilitate better station working, and if the move required an intermediate signal, the signaller would clear it. IRL, there are calling on aspects on the middle signals to facilitate coupling moves when required (making a rake of empties for Soho/Tyseley/Barton), or simply to get as many units in the platform as possible. While these aspects are off, the main aspect on the middle and intermediate (or end) signal would remain on, and the platform staff had to verbally confirm to the signaller via the direct line that the permissive working had come to a stand. Therefore, the intermediate signals cannot be approach controlled as they can be cleared when there is a train standing in the adjacent track circuit, or independently of any train being present, to the best of my knowledge. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 15/04/2014 at 11:56 #58922 | |
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TimB2010
77 posts |
" said:Eddy,I have seen this happen many times in real life. Log in to reply |
| Short Signal Sections at end of some Platforms 15/04/2014 at 16:44 #58927 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts |
The only way to solve this for certain would be to get the diagrams or control tables. My guess is Geoff has access to some form of information as he was able to confirm what Eddy stated, which he said came from 10 years S&T experience at New Street. I do not have any idea at all about WestPac interlocking, or the New Street installation in particular, but the idea that you can get yellow onto red with no overlap and no form of approach release when there are only a few yards between the signals does not seem particularly attractive from a standards point of view. There would also be the disadvantage that there is potential to tie up a lot of the layout if a train draws up to the signal, or even if it stops short of the signal showing off and the signalman then has to replace it for a two minute time out. Two minutes is a long time at New Street when you have trains waiting to come in or go out. Log in to reply |