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| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 18:55 #58930 | |
kreader
38 posts |
I am running Wolverhampton at present. Due to delays I have 1S54, 1J11 and 1F39 all standing at red signals waiting to use Platform 1. Should I, to save time, divert at least one train to Platform 2 which will incur a wrong platform penalty or cause further delays by only using platform 1. Which incurs the greatest penalty? Only being a lay signalman I do not know what would be the correct procedure in real life. Thanks for all the new sims that are appearing all those working so hard to produce them have my sincere thanks. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 19:10 #58931 | |
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hayleysmith
14 posts |
Change platform. It's a Right Time Railway where money talks :-)
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 19:19 #58932 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
Yep, change platform. At least your timekeeping performance will come out a bit better. At New Street, as soon as there was a major problem, it was platform changes all over the place to try get things sorted out. Mal. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 19:51 #58935 | |
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Southernrover
46 posts |
Edit the timetable so you don't incur a penalty. I regard this as the equivelent of notifiying the Station staff of the altered platform. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 20:54 #58936 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
It would be nice if there were some "official" way to do this, and some set time (for example) before the train arrives when changing the platform doesn't incur a penalty, so that you have to think ahead enough but it is doable. This could be implemented (in new/updated sims at least) by means of a telephone call to each station, I expect - unless it would be more accurate to have a more automated system? I don't know exactly how the PIS systems are fed in real life. I expect it varies by area. Last edited: 15/04/2014 at 20:55 by Muzer Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 22:09 #58942 | |
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JamesN
1575 posts 
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PIS/CIS are usually fed by berth steps. You could edit the timetable to not incur the penalty, but it's only a very minor penalty and not (IMO) worth the hassle and time-consumption (where you may end up delaying more trains, incurring mroe penalties) Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 15/04/2014 at 22:17 #58943 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
I have seen a number of PIS systems where it seems to know in advance of even the route having been set (it can't have been because there were other conflicting moves in the meantime) that there has been a platform alteration. At Basingstoke, for example. These must surely get the platform change data from somewhere.
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 01:53 #58951 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I haven't played Wolverhampton but another alternative is to signal the driver to pass the station without stopping, unless this is a terminus. Again, a decision to be avoided if possible. Additionally, abandon timetable (but retain headcode), shunt/reverse train somewhere else, then resume TT.
Last edited: 16/04/2014 at 01:54 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 02:32 #58953 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts
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At smaller stations the PIS/CIS is usually automatic and relatively unsupervised. As James says, this is usually by berth steps but can also include routes set. At larger stations (with or without a human announcer present, again the information is automatic to a certain degree but the operator can withhold platform announcements until the train is ready (common at London termini, amongst others), input platform alterations in advance, put out selective loudspeaker announcements, change stopping patterns, etc. And as for the stations in between (quite literally), anything within that range! Some metro areas have a more complex system - Yoker IECC has an announcer position who pretty much controls the CIS displays in the entire IECC area, including manual voice announcements to any station. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 07:58 #58956 | |
DriverCurran
683 posts
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In our office if we are notified in advance of any issues (i.e GZAC line blockages etc) we then just turn around to our left and notify the CIS operator who sits along side us and advise them to alter all trains booked via x to show running via y, therefore giving the impression that the system can detect things that are actually manually controlled. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 08:27 #58957 | |
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John
884 posts |
Out of interest, Paul, what CIS system do Southeastern use - is it AMEY like we use, or ATOS?
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 10:41 #58961 | |
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DriverCurran
683 posts
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Just checked with one of the men in the know and it is the ATOS one mate.
You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 10:52 #58962 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts
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The disadvantage with berth steps is that the system will not know of the platform alteration until the train passes the last signal before the platform, by which time it will be too late to get the passengers over there, hence there would often be communications between Signalmen and Station Staff (sometimes with Control thrown in to confuse things further), which would lead to the information systems possibly being updated a little earlier. In some areas, the feeds from the TDs to things like CCF will also include some route information. For instance BS104 at Aynho Junction will display which route is set from it on the TD map. This could be of use to the information systems as they would at least know where the next train would go automatically. In the case above at Wolverhampton, I would imagine they would probably just throw all three trains booked platform as it may well take longer to get the passengers over to the other side of the bridge than it would to just run them one behind the other, potentially causing further delay. In SimSig, you may as well replatform because although you will get a penalty for doing so, you would also get a delay penalty for not doing so, and the train in SimSig will not end up suffering over time in the platform. In reality it might well do if you were to replatform at short notice. Perhaps it may be worth adding a scenario to the wish list where trains replatformed are subjected to longer station stop durations than those on the correct platform? Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 12:20 #58963 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Add a "phone station" option to the telephone menu to advise that a train is being re-platformed. Provided the call is made >5 mins before the trains booked arrival time don't give any penalty for the platform change.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: CTCThiago, Temple Meads |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 13:27 #58969 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
" said:Add a "phone station" option to the telephone menu to advise that a train is being re-platformed. Provided the call is made >5 mins before the trains booked arrival time don't give any penalty for the platform change.+1 on this idea from me. maybe the call could also auto-alter the trains TT to reflect the updated platform as a reminder? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: CTCThiago |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 17:27 #58991 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2025 posts
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I have raised a ticket for this suggestion #10728
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 17:44 #58997 | |
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John
884 posts |
The CIS system that I operate has access to routing information with platform alterations being triggered by the signaller setting a route, not by berth steps. For example, if a train sat in the platform at Redhill had a route set all the way through to East Croydon platform 2 instead of platform 1, the CIS should change straight away, even though the train is miles away. The operator would receive a visual alarm, but this is just for information and no intervention would be required. Terminal stations are different, however. At Victoria, trains are observed arriving on CCF and platforms input manually, as you wouldn't necessarily want trains advertised straightaway. The disadvantage of manual input mode is that platform alterations are not triggered automatically. An overzealous operator could post a train to a platform when it was only approaching Battersea Park and then nip off to make a brew, only for Matt or one of his mates to change their mind and route it elsewhere. You then end up with hundreds of punters standing on platform 9, and their train arriving on platform 19. But I've never, ever fallen into that trap, on no - definitely not.....  :whistle: :blush: :blush:
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 17:57 #58999 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
" said:But I've never, ever fallen into that trap, on no - definitely not.....Sounds like the voice of 'experience' to me. 
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 18:12 #59000 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
" said:And as for the stations in between (quite literally), anything within that range! Some metro areas have a more complex system - Yoker IECC has an announcer position who pretty much controls the CIS displays in the entire IECC area, including manual voice announcements to any station. The announcers at Yoker were done away with in 2007 when the Scotrail CCTV control centre at Paisley opened. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 19:01 #59003 | |
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DriverCurran
683 posts
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" said:only for Matt or one of his mates to change their mind and route it elsewhere. You then end up with hundreds of punters standing on platform 9, and their train arriving on platform 19. But I've never, ever fallen into that trap, on no - definitely not.....This sounds like too much protest to me :laugh: Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 19:40 #59006 | |
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JamesN
1575 posts
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Quote:The disadvantage of manual input mode is that platform alterations are not triggered automatically. An overzealous operator could post a train to a platform when it was only approaching Battersea Park and then nip off to make a brew, only for Matt or one of his mates to change their mind and route it elsewhere. You then end upMatt change his mind? Never :whistle: 
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 16/04/2014 at 20:07 #59007 | |
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John
884 posts |
To be fair, i've never had any dealings with Matt so I can't really comment on his decisiveness one way or another, but an irritating quirk of the system is that when an outbound headcode has been interposed into a platform and the siggie changes their mind, cancels the headcode and reinterposes it in a different platform, the system thinks the train has departed and clears it off the boards.
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 17/04/2014 at 17:48 #59040 | |
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kreader
38 posts |
Thanks for the advice. I was elsewhere last night so I will implement the platform change when I get started again tonight. I must admit a lot of the stuff went over my head.
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| Delay Train or Change Platform 17/04/2014 at 22:19 #59046 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
" said:... I must admit a lot of the stuff went over my head. John works at Victoria Station, and I work at Victoria signal box. A lot of the discussion is about what happens between a signaller making a decision, what info can be gathered from the signalling equipment, and what people like John have to do to get a platform to be advertised. " said: ... but an irritating quirk of the system is that when an outbound headcode has been interposed into a platform and the siggie changes their mind, cancels the headcode and reinterposes it in a different platform, the system thinks the train has departed and clears it off the boards. This is so annoying! We *want * to use booked platform, and then something else conspires against us requiring a platform change and a movement of the outbound Train Description to the new platform. Log in to reply |
| Delay Train or Change Platform 19/04/2014 at 09:25 #59102 | |
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benstafford
88 posts |
We rarely get any warning at purley, although watching for the up train getting the signal before mine crosses in front is a hint of a random platform change and seeing anything other than a yellow or red at the south end says the platform will be right. In real life what is the penalty for signalling trains in the wrong order causing a hundred people to make a 300 yard dash round the safety barriers at purley!
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