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| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 16:36 #60346 | |
GW43125
495 posts |
Hi All, Was reading the Euston manual and discovered that the only reference was a link to Clive's website. So what I am wondering is the following: Are there any plans to copy the Euston manual over to the Wiki or not? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, DSW Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 16:43 #60348 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
Not that I've seen
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| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 19:15 #60354 | |
postal
5191 posts 
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" said:Hi All,As Clive will hold the copyright to the manual, then any copying like that could only be done with his permission. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 21:35 #60364 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:Hi All,DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 23:08 #60365 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different.What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner? It's entirely sensible to ask that the simulation manual is placed in the location specifically designated for manuals. Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 23:11 #60366 | |
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postal
5191 posts
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" said:What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner?Pot? Kettle? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Euston manual 11/05/2014 at 23:42 #60367 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:" said:Indeed - especially given the major advantage that anyone can fix errors in manuals on the wiki. Though having said that, Clive's manual is definitely one of the better ones and I don't think it needs much adding/editing, so cheers for taking the time to make it, Clive.DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different.What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner? It's entirely sensible to ask that the simulation manual is placed in the location specifically designated for manuals. Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 12/05/2014 at 02:38 #60368 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
" said:" said:Sorry if I upset some persons, there was no hostility intended. I felt you were having a computer problem. Had EDIT been mentioned in the original post, I would have replied in a different manner having you referred to Clive." said:Indeed - especially given the major advantage that anyone can fix errors in manuals on the wiki. Though having said that, Clive's manual is definitely one of the better ones and I don't think it needs much adding/editing, so cheers for taking the time to make it, Clive.DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different.What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner? It's entirely sensible to ask that the simulation manual is placed in the location specifically designated for manuals. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 12/05/2014 at 09:16 #60370 | |
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kbarber
1712 posts |
" said:" said:" said:Indeed - especially given the major advantage that anyone can fix errors in manuals on the wiki. Though having said that, Clive's manual is definitely one of the better ones and I don't think it needs much adding/editing, so cheers for taking the time to make it, Clive.DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different.What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner? It's entirely sensible to ask that the simulation manual is placed in the location specifically designated for manuals. I think there might be a real issue with editing Clive's Euston manual, most particularly because it includes a copy of the original 'Instructions to Signalmen' issued when the box was commissioned in 1965. Whatever issues there might be with that manual, it's the horses mouth and is what everyone would have had to use when learning the new box (live, through the Monday morning peak!) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Euston manual 14/05/2014 at 12:51 #60471 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:" said:Thank you." said:Indeed - especially given the major advantage that anyone can fix errors in manuals on the wiki. Though having said that, Clive's manual is definitely one of the better ones and I don't think it needs much adding/editing, so cheers for taking the time to make it, Clive.DSW, you use the internet to view the Forum. Do you have a problem using the internet at the same time to access Clive's Web page? Viewing the Wiki is no different.What sort of argument is that - and what warrants it being posed in such a hostile manner? It's entirely sensible to ask that the simulation manual is placed in the location specifically designated for manuals. I've had some bad experiences in the past with people changing stuff I've written and introducing errors. I don't have the time or the energy to watch wiki pages and check every change that's made. So I'd rather maintain a definitive copy of the manual myself. For example, some years (?) ago Maxand did a beginner's guide to Royston which had some errors in it. I'd hate for those errors to have been inserted into the actual manual. I'm actually surprised that other devs don't feel that way. I have no problem with there being an "additional notes" page on the wiki, provided that it's made clear that I don't take any responsibility for the contents. I've no Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 07:21 #60518 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
The flip side to this argument is robustness. No matter your intentions, and I’m certainly not aiming this at you personally, the fact is, websites don’t last forever without care and feeding, and a personal website is probably more likely to disappear than the SimSig website. If the manuals are in the SimSig wiki, there’s a community here that wants to see SimSig continue. I can’t possibly know what would happen in such a situation, but I want to believe that even if Geoff no longer wanted anything to do with SimSig, the community pressure would be enough that an effort would be made to at least continue hosting existing content—both sims and manuals—on this website (possible legal issues aside), even if no new development could happen. Your personal website, though, is a different matter: if you stopped maintaining your personal website, those manuals could be lost forever before any of the rest of us knew what was happening, leaving us with sims (hosted in the Remository) with no manuals at all! That’s why I believe in manuals living in the SimSig wiki, on SimSig infrastructure.
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| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 12:23 #60525 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2028 posts
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The easy answer to that is to publish a PDF version of Clives manual to either the upload area or the wiki.
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| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 12:38 #60526 | |
--miki--
68 posts |
Euston manual and other documents are already included with download and can be found from SimSig\Euston folder.
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| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 12:55 #60528 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:... the fact is, websites don’t last forever without care and feeding, and a personal website is probably more likely to disappear than the SimSig website.Nothing expires on the internet, archive.org, Google, and lots of other things scrape and cache the internet. Also, Clive's domain has has been registered since 1996, that puts it at 5 years older than the SimSig one. Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 13:21 #60535 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Nothing expires on the internet, archive.org...Although if I remember rightly, archive.org lost a significant amount of data due to a fire or similar event some time back. They also don't cache everything - they have recorded the Wembley Sub manual (at two different dates!), but never the Euston one. As for google, I'm not entirely sure whether you can access their cache for a page after has been taken down and it is no longer listed as a valid search result? They must remove nonexistent pages from their search results eventually, and I've never found a way to see what their cache includes other than clicking the "Cached" link for a result, which only provides a single page (the links to other pages attempt to go back to the original site). Last edited: 15/05/2014 at 13:28 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 14:07 #60543 | |
Peter Bennet
5362 posts
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Don't forget yesterday's news from the ECJ (I'm not going to say anything) re Google. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 14:12 #60545 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
Hawk, you raise a valid point. I have no problem with people keeping copies of my manuals. I have no problem with people making those available if my site goes away (for more than a short time). I would have no problem with the HTML pages being copied to the SimSig site. But, as I said, I don't have the time or energy to monitor the wiki and don't want errors to be introduced. If someone can suggest a solution to that, I'll revisit the point. Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 14:25 #60550 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
Basically, Clive has written a very good manual and doesn't want it edited by other people - which would happen if it were to move to the wiki - to maintain its accuracy.
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| Euston manual 15/05/2014 at 15:23 #60557 | |
GeoffM
6287 posts |
Pages and namespaces can be individually locked down in the Wiki to prevent changes.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Euston manual 16/05/2014 at 07:48 #60596 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
" said:Pages and namespaces can be individually locked down in the Wiki to prevent changes.I suspected as much, and would personally think this to be the best answer. On top of everything else, it means the manual is in the same place as all the other sim manuals (hence the expected place), and is in the same format (not necessarily the same writing style, but at least in the basic format of a wiki page as opposed to something else) and therefore more familiar to people who have read manuals for other sims. Of course, this is only my opinion, which, not being Clive, doesn’t count for much 
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