Slotted fringe boxes

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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 13:01 #63558
Izzy
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44 posts 		There seems to be an issue with the fringes at Acton Canal Wharf (i have seen passing reference to this one in other posts), Acton Wells Jn and Euroterminal - all seem to have similar problems - that is the message "Route locked by points normal/reverse" when trying to send a train. Or in the case of Acton Wells, when a train enters it gets held at AW146 signal forever without requesting a slot with a similar message of points locking the route. If you talk the train past whichever signal it is stuck at, then the train stops a little further with the message in the F2 screen "Points set against train".

I have had limited success with the Acton Wells issue by removing the train that got stuck after saving and reloading the sim - the next train then appears without problem (most of the time). But i have had no joy in getting a route set towards Acton Canal Wharf or the Euroterminal (as opposed to the EFOC).

Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere, but i only saw reference to the Acton Canal Wharf problem elsewhere - and these all seem to have a similar problem in common.

As a sidenote, which i suspect has also received mention elsewhere - the plethora of light engines at the start of the 24 hour timetable seems to indicate a problem with the TT as well - a look at the TT rules reveals a whole host of incomplete entries etc. I haven't posted this seperately as i suspect that the TT isn't finished and will be updated in due course. At least, i hope so. I expect problems like this with any new free simulation, but i am a little upset that i paid for this one when it still has such bugs.

I have seen comments elsewhere that "it doesn't matter if free or payware" - i disagree. If someone pays good money for something, then the major bugs should have been ironed out - there will always be odd little things that get missed, but these ones aren't little.

On the whole, i think this is a pretty good sim - and i have seen that Geoff has an update lined up, so i keep my fingers crossed for an even better version soon.
Last edited: 06/08/2014 at 13:17 by Izzy
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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 13:16 #63559
njimiller
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139 posts 		Hi - if you do an update through the loader you should find these issues now fixed.

Nick
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The following user said thank you: Izzy
Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 13:18 #63560
Izzy
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44 posts 		Really? i only bought the sim yesterday? Ok, i'll give it a go. Many thanks.
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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 15:37 #63564
Lardybiker
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771 posts 		The downloadable version you installed and the version available through the update process are not always in sync because there is more work involved in creating and testing the installer for the downloadable version than there is making the new version available through the update process.

It just so happens you have hit one of the occasions where updates been released but the downloaded version has yet to be updated to match. The download will be updated in due course to match the version available through updates.

It is always a good idea whenever you install a sim to check for updates, just in case.
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The following user said thank you: Izzy
Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 17:50 #63566
Izzy
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44 posts 		Thanks folks, the update has sorted it out.
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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 19:26 #63567
y10g9
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895 posts 		" said:
...snip...

As a sidenote, which i suspect has also received mention elsewhere - the plethora of light engines at the start of the 24 hour timetable seems to indicate a problem with the TT as well - a look at the TT rules reveals a whole host of incomplete entries etc. I haven't posted this seperately as i suspect that the TT isn't finished and will be updated in due course. At least, i hope so. I expect problems like this with any new free simulation, but i am a little upset that i paid for this one when it still has such bugs.

...snip...

Are you referring to the fact that there are lots of LE that have an entry time of ..:..? If so, theses are governved by rules to appear x mins after the train they come off of arrives at a set location. This is used where the uncoupling of a loco is carried out outside of the sim, but it runs around in part of the sim. If this isn't what you mean, can you explain further (and upload some screenshots or a save game to help us see the issue). To my knowledge, having just run the 19th october 2009 tt completely through there are no incomplete rules. there are some that need tweaking that have been reported on the forum and should be fixed in a future release of the TT.

Each time there is a release of a sim, either paid or unpaid, there are bugs that have slipped through the net, or only show themselves when something is tried that hasn't been thought of in the beta test. One example is the tt stepping bu that was fixed at southwest sdg. a joining of a loco to a train in an unusual location flagged this up. If i hadn't tried to join a train in an odd location, this could of been un noticed for a long time.
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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 22:00 #63579
Izzy
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44 posts 		The light locos have been fixed with the update - the version i first downloaded had a load of corrupted rules - and i had a stream of 30 or so locos coming out of wembley north (i suspect that it was every single run round all appearing at once!!). It was overwhelming to try to learn a new area with the constant stream of locos phoning up and getting slots etc. Like i say this has been fixed with the update that i got today.

I understand that there will always be the odd bug that slips through the net, and i am not trying to berate every small bug that creeps through (although being a professional signalling engineer, i'd be horrified if some of these ended up commissioned into service). I recognise that most people here put a lot of time and work into what are undoubtedly the best simulations of this nature anywhere. My gripe was that the slotting arrangements was a very large bug that shouldn't have got through an intial test.

I made the assumption that what i downloaded was the most current update, and was a little put out at the errors. As Lardy mentioned, there is a small window when the download and the updates are a little out of sync. All seems well now.

It may be an idea to lock or remove this topic, as it is already out of date as the update has fixed the issues i had.

Thank you to everyone who has replied here - it is nice to know there is some support when needed Keep up the good work.
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Slotted fringe boxes 06/08/2014 at 23:58 #63580
GeoffM
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6292 posts 		" said:
The light locos have been fixed with the update - the version i first downloaded had a load of corrupted rules - and i had a stream of 30 or so locos coming out of wembley north (i suspect that it was every single run round all appearing at once!!). It was overwhelming to try to learn a new area with the constant stream of locos phoning up and getting slots etc. Like i say this has been fixed with the update that i got today.
Um, no, the timetable wasn't updated! Nor any software for that matter. It was purely a simulation data update, and that doesn't affect (well, rarely) affects timetables in this way.


" said:
I understand that there will always be the odd bug that slips through the net, and i am not trying to berate every small bug that creeps through (although being a professional signalling engineer, i'd be horrified if some of these ended up commissioned into service). I recognise that most people here put a lot of time and work into what are undoubtedly the best simulations of this nature anywhere. My gripe was that the slotting arrangements was a very large bug that shouldn't have got through an intial test.
You've not seen some installations then? Off the top of my head:

  • Interlocking fault at Wembley Central causing some unsafe issue (I don't recall what)

  • Signalling display fault causing the wrong aspect to be shown on the screen as opposed to on the ground

  • Frequently happens: interlocking data gets changed on site during commissioning to fix a fault not identified during testing

  • Signalling display fault showing foot crossings in the wrong place, causing signallers to allow people to cross the track, when in fact the train had yet to reach the crossing (twice in recent years)

  • (In the US but hey) Passenger train given greens (line speed) into an occupied section over low speed diverging points


...etc etc

As it happens, the Acton Canal Wharf issue was a minor fault in the area but unrelated to ACW was identified during final testing, a quick fix was produced (literally a single item change), another test, but of course no trains happened to go to ACW during that time, nor was there any expectation that anything had happened there. Unfortunate but it happens in real life too, as described above.


" said:
Keep up the good work.
Thanks.
SimSig Boss
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The following users said thank you: Izzy, reliefsignalman
Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 00:16 #63581
Izzy
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44 posts 		"Um, no, the timetable wasn't updated! Nor any software for that matter. It was purely a simulation data update, and that doesn't affect (well, rarely) affects timetables in this way"
- Well, it works now and it didn't before - so something has changed :)

"You've not seen some installations then? Off the top of my head:"
I have seen many problems with installations over the years and been involved in some very high profile incidents over the last 20 or 30 years - and one or two have horrified me, but this isn't really the place to talk about individual incidents. We can only strive to do the best we can.

On the subject of In the US - my favorite is a control system that is programmed to ignore TC's flicking occupied/clear, and just to treat it as an unoccupied section. I couldn't believe that when i read it in an NTSB report - and minimum drop shunts of 0.04 ohms???? I am just glad i don't commute in Washington DC.
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Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 01:05 #63582
sloppyjag
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480 posts
Online 		" said:


Um, no, the timetable wasn't updated! Nor any software for that matter. It was purely a simulation data update, and that doesn't affect (well, rarely) affects timetables in this way.


I'm guessing Izzy's previous loader version pre-dated v4.1.2 which introduced UID's so his version didn't recognise them in the rules so they all entered at once?
Planotransitophobic!
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Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 03:12 #63585
GeoffM
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6292 posts 		" said:
We can only strive to do the best we can.
You may well be horrified if something like that happened in real life - and my point was yes it does happen in real life. We're only human!


" said:
On the subject of In the US - my favorite is a control system that is programmed to ignore TC's flicking occupied/clear, and just to treat it as an unoccupied section. I couldn't believe that when i read it in an NTSB report - and minimum drop shunts of 0.04 ohms???? I am just glad i don't commute in Washington DC.
I scan-read something about that. Pretty shoddy.


" said:
" said:


Um, no, the timetable wasn't updated! Nor any software for that matter. It was purely a simulation data update, and that doesn't affect (well, rarely) affects timetables in this way.


I'm guessing Izzy's previous loader version pre-dated v4.1.2 which introduced UID's so his version didn't recognise them in the rules so they all entered at once?
Ah yes, you're probably right.
SimSig Boss
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Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 05:14 #63590
clive
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2739 posts 		" said:

On the subject of In the US - my favorite is a control system that is programmed to ignore TC's flicking occupied/clear, and just to treat it as an unoccupied section. I couldn't believe that when i read it in an NTSB report
And, if I recall correctly, 1000 (yes: one thousand) wrong-side TC failures a week was considered acceptable.
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Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 09:31 #63592
belly buster
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368 posts 		" said:
" said:

On the subject of In the US - my favorite is a control system that is programmed to ignore TC's flicking occupied/clear, and just to treat it as an unoccupied section. I couldn't believe that when i read it in an NTSB report
And, if I recall correctly, 1000 (yes: one thousand) wrong-side TC failures a week was considered acceptable.
To be fair this doesn't sound too different to a typical Kings Cross mulitiplayer session.

Edit: OK not wrong-side failures but I'll leave this there as humour nugget.
Last edited: 07/08/2014 at 09:36 by belly buster
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Slotted fringe boxes 07/08/2014 at 09:33 #63593
belly buster
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368 posts 		" said:


You've not seen some installations then? Off the top of my head:

  • Interlocking fault at Wembley Central causing some unsafe issue (I don't recall what)

  • Signalling display fault causing the wrong aspect to be shown on the screen as opposed to on the ground

  • Frequently happens: interlocking data gets changed on site during commissioning to fix a fault not identified during testing

  • Signalling display fault showing foot crossings in the wrong place, causing signallers to allow people to cross the track, when in fact the train had yet to reach the crossing (twice in recent years)

  • (In the US but hey) Passenger train given greens (line speed) into an occupied section over low speed diverging points


...etc etc
There's an RAIB report on just such an incident here: http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/101223-SI2010-MiltonKeynes.pdf
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