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| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 02:26 #64617 | |
Lordsdisused
3 posts |
I was wondering, when it came to real life CCTV level crossings, would you press 'clear' and try to lower the route, even though you could see it was blocked? In Brighton and other Sims, when the barriers come down, it says barriers down, and then you press clear, but still you get 'crossing blocked' shouldn't you get the crossing blocked message as soon as the barriers lower, rather than after pressing 'clear'?
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| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 05:12 #64619 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
I had always interpreted the “crossing blocked” message as meaning “you looked at the TV and saw an obstruction”—which IRL would happen not the instant the barriers finish dropping, but rather when the signaller gets around to actually looking at the TV, which in Simsig is rolled into pushing the clear button.
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| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 10:10 #64621 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:I had always interpreted the “crossing blocked” message as meaning “you looked at the TV and saw an obstruction”—which IRL would happen not the instant the barriers finish dropping, but rather when the signaller gets around to actually looking at the TV, which in Simsig is rolled into pushing the clear button.That's correct. That's the closest I could get to realism. Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 10:25 #64622 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
The best would be having stock footage of a level crossing blockage and requiring the signaller to look at the (virtual) screen, but I think that's going a bit too far out of the scope of SimSig ;) (plus then you'd get people complaining that that doesn't look like Red Cow, etc. :p) Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 21:10 #64625 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2029 posts 
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You would also struggle to get an image of a vehicle obstructing a level crossing. It does not happen that often, and it would be irresponsible to try and cause such an incident just for the photo. You'd also need different images for more or less every different time of the day. I would personally have to conclude that it is not worth the effort, and Clives way works. The only difference I would be tempted to suggest would be that the crossing blocked message comes up as soon as the crossing is closed rather than when the CLEAR button is pressed, as in reality pressing the button would clear the protecting signals. This is being picky though as the current system works well enough for what it is intended to do. Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 18/09/2014 at 22:36 #64627 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
Indeed - the suggestion was mostly a joke, I don't honestly expect anyone to put the time and effort into what would be such a minor feature 
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| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 04:19 #64628 | |
GeoffM
6288 posts |
Don't laugh - it's been done in the real world. The customer wanted it, they got it. It is somewhat in the 0.1% of realism enhancements category though - nice touch but was it worth it - strictly IMHO, of course. And a certain emerald customer, shall we say, did propose to stage buses trapped in crossings, since that customer owned both the rail and the buses in that area. That project never came to fruition sadly. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 12:10 #64637 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
The current solution doesn't seem realistic to me either. Quote: Hawk777 wrote:Why have CCTV if the signaller doesn't look at it before lowering the barrier? I would have thought that lowering the barrier after noticing an obstruction might not only trap an obstructing vehicle from getting out, it might also cause damage to the vehicle (and the barrier) if the barrier dropped when any part of the vehicle happened to be underneath (e.g., a long load on a stalled semi-trailer). Also, why should raising the barriers automatically clear each and every blockage? This would only work if all blockages were due to vehicles being drivable and somehow being trapped between the barriers, which surely doesn't apply in all cases in real life - cars stall anywhere on the crossing and may not be able to restart. A better solution would be to have two different events with different messages for each: 1) "Vehicle trapped between barriers" - identical to current situation, occurs after barrier dropped, cleared by raising barrier. Vehicle assumed to be drivable. 2) "Crossing blocked by (stalled) vehicle" - a random event which, when triggered, prevents signaller from lowering barrier (let alone clearing route) until crossing is cleared by a third party (in SimSig, after a variable period of time). This simulates a breakdown. One other problem with SimSig at present is that the name of the LC affected is not included in the message (as I recall), which may cause unnecessary confusion at a time when it is least wanted. For added interest, different kinds of vehicle might be substituted for the generic term "vehicle" in the message, with clearing delay corresponding to the type. E.g., "Car trapped between barriers at xxx (crossing name)" or "xyz crossing blocked by stalled mobile crane" or "xyz crossing blocked by minor accident". Last edited: 19/09/2014 at 12:18 by maxand Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 12:32 #64638 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:The current solution doesn't seem realistic to me either.Because the crossing sequence is designed so that any vehicle approaching or on the crossing should have time to get clear before the barriers actually drop. Equally, the length of time in the sequence means a car can (illegally) enter the crossing after the sequence has started and subsequently get trapped. Quote: One other problem with SimSig at present is that the name of the LC affected is not included in the message (as I recall), which may cause unnecessary confusion at a time when it is least wanted.As was pointed out the last time you moaned about this, the message appears when you click the "Clear" button, so it's entirely unambiguous. Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 12:50 #64639 | |
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clive
2738 posts |
" said:The *purpose* of CCTV is to allow the signaller to check the crossing is clear before clearing signals over it. Also don't forget that some crossings have auto-lower, so the signaller doesn't look at the crossing until the barriers are down. And the new obstacle detector crossings don't even have CCTV - they also only check the situation after the barriers are down. Quote: Yes, it's possible. But it requires things to happen at just the wrong moment. And the barriers aren't imposing a large force. Quote: True, but it's the 99% case. Quote: How does the signaller know which case applies? All he sees is a car sitting between the barriers. Quote: It's a thought, but I suspect it's too low probability to worry about simulating. However, all raised as Mantis 11579. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 15:03 #64640 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2029 posts
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The type and nature of the obstruction is irrelevant as the signalman will usually raise the barriers then watch the screen until the obstruction removes itself before doing anything else with the crossing. Sometimes the barriers get damaged by people hitting them trying to escape from then, as happened at the only incident I've ever seen of a vehicle being trapped. As Clive states, most "blockages" will clear themselves quickly once the barriers are back up. Multiple operations would not be relevant in reality as the signalman wouldn't re-lower the barriers with an obstruction on the crossing. If you were going all out for realism, then you would have to argue that the number of instances of blocked crossings is disproportionately high as each crossing might have an average of one incident a year or less. I am not suggesting this should be changed though. There are far better ways for Clive and Geoff to spend their time than messing with the CCTV code as it does a decent enough job of simulating the crossings. Log in to reply |
| CCTV level crossings in SIMSIG 19/09/2014 at 17:11 #64643 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
In my whole career on the railway, from starting with the S&T, during my time as a signaller and latterly in the Ops Safety section I have never yet heard of a vehicle stalling and/or becoming immobile on an MCB level crossing. It just doesn't happen. Blocking back, yes. Stalling, no. And the video thing was done as an upgrade to Network Rail's NX panel simulators in the recent past. There are 5 or 6 different scenario videos the instructor can choose to display including vehciles getting trapped on the crossing, jumping the lights etc.. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Stephen Fulcher |