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Loader sims freezing

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Loader sims freezing 08/07/2018 at 22:34 #110153
belly buster
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I can let you have the minidump file if it would be any help. Just let me know.
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Loader sims freezing 11/07/2018 at 13:45 #110194
belly buster
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I've had another freeze - this time on Leeds East/West.

I took another minidump and this issue is in the exact same routine. This may be a red herring but the "ProcessUserTime" was very similar to the previous crash.

More notably, once I killed the program and restarted, I could then reproduce the error at will. The trick is to grab the horizontal scroll bar exactly at the edge of the edge (see arrow). As you can see from the screenshot I managed to do this within 3 seconds of restarting the sim.

However ... once I rebooted, I could no longer reproduce the error, so I don't know what conclusions you can draw from this.

For info I am running a brand new laptop (Dell Latitude 7480 Windows 10 64-bit), integrated Intel graphics HD 520 with up-to-date graphics drivers.


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Loader sims freezing 11/07/2018 at 19:59 #110197
Ar88
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Derby has been a repeat-crasher for me - every time that I have gone to drag the scroll bar (with how my screens are set up, I need the sim sat in an EXACT position for my area - so using my nouse's scroller wheel/numpad is no good.
The Welsh contingent. Aron, or Ar to mates. Also known as 88E or ThatManCalledAr.
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Loader sims freezing 05/08/2018 at 12:31 #110774
belly buster
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OK - I'm honing in ... After all working fine for a while I get another crash - and I realise it's only happening when I'm on my laptop, and only when running on battery - not when plugged in.

I know the Intel chips use SpeedStep to adjust clock speeds in certain conditions. Maybe this is related.

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Loader sims freezing 05/08/2018 at 22:53 #110783
northroad
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Well here we are, nearly 4 years after this problem was first reported and really no nearer to sorting out the problem or even identifying the cause.
I have just been inputting trains into London Bridge this evening loosing almost 40 which I had put into the timetable editor and I was really hacked off.
Can someone admin or devs say what the problem is or even tell us what computer they are using with what software and/or drivers as I for one have had it up to here and remembering a work around every time is not sorting the problem.

Geoff

Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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Loader sims freezing 05/08/2018 at 23:27 #110784
GeoffM
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northroad in post 110783 said:

Can someone admin or devs say what the problem is or even tell us what computer they are using with what software and/or drivers as I for one have had it up to here and remembering a work around every time is not sorting the problem.

Geoff
Well if I knew what the problem is, I would have fixed it. The only common factor seems to be the scroll bar - and not even that is reliably reproducible.

The only other workaround I can think of is an option to hide the scroll bars and allow panning by clicking and dragging on the screen. If people think that would help then please say so.

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Loader sims freezing 05/08/2018 at 23:50 #110785
HST125Scorton
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I can't recall this issue at all.. My sims I have never freeze when scrolling using the mouse wheel or the scroll bar..
Geoff, for your comment.. I prefer it as scrolling and would find the click/drag would be a pain in hosts any my own offline games etc but maybe have the option for both in F3 Options for others??

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Loader sims freezing 06/08/2018 at 16:04 #110792
GeoffM
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HST125Scorton in post 110785 said:
Geoff, for your comment.. I prefer it as scrolling and would find the click/drag would be a pain in hosts any my own offline games etc but maybe have the option for both in F3 Options for others??
Yes, I said an option.

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Loader sims freezing 06/08/2018 at 22:51 #110803
GeoffM
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With Headshot's help I have found a possible factor. The ScrollBox has smooth scrolling on which forces a redraw rapidly. If I turn that off, no more crashes. But that's on one machine only so I've attached the test exe here in the hope somebody can give it a go. There are no settings to change. Simply ensure that you can reliably crash V4.8 (official) release and that you can reliably NOT crash when running the attachment.

While searching for smooth scrolling with Delphi components, I did find a resolved ticket for a later version of Delphi which exhibits this behaviour. However it only related to machines that had been running for >30 days (the Windows rollover). Is this a factor for anybody else?

Please note the attached exe is not signed and also has the same version number 4.8.

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Loader sims freezing 06/08/2018 at 23:28 #110805
Muzer
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Hmm, the plot thickens. While I'm on Linux/wine so don't know how this affects things, I am in the habit of leaving my PC on basically until I have a very compelling reason to turn it off, and this certainly would have exceeded 30 days many times. I've also experienced the crash many times. Sadly however, my laptop ran out of batteries recently so my uptime is only 14 days. I gave the current version (ie not the one you just linked) a try, fiddling about with the scrollbars as much and as fast as I could, and I wasn't able to reproduce the crash (however, this might not say much as I don't think it was ever particularly easy to reproduce in the first place).

You might well be onto something though; it all sounds too plausible to be a coincidence (I hope!). Perhaps others who have experienced the crash could report if they tend to leave their systems on for long periods? (Bearing in mind that standby/sleep and hibernate don't reset the clock for this purpose, I'm assuming; only turning your computer off or restarting will do that). If the mystery still isn't solved in sixteen days' time I'll give it another go, see if I can reliably reproduce the crash after 30 days of uptime and also see if it goes away in your patched version.

Many thanks for looking into this more, and good luck — I know how awful tracking down these sorts of bugs can be!

Last edited: 06/08/2018 at 23:30 by Muzer
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Loader sims freezing 07/08/2018 at 17:24 #110821
GeoffM
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Anybody else able to try this? I will leave it in anyway as an option.
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Loader sims freezing 07/08/2018 at 22:04 #110824
GeoffM
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Muzer in post 110805 said:
While I'm on Linux/wine so don't know how this affects things
*If* it was the rollover issue then the problem is in the Delphi libraries, not the OS.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
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Loader sims freezing 07/08/2018 at 23:14 #110825
belly buster
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I've recently rebooted (ironically because of recent black-scrollbar-of-doom incident).

Try as I might I can't get the "normal" version to crash right now. I'm convinced there is some trigger that once it kicks in that's it until a reboot. The 30 day theory aligns as well.

If I can reproduce the issue I'll definitely try the modified version.

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Loader sims freezing 07/08/2018 at 23:28 #110826
northroad
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I think in my case it could be associated with having to many programmes open at the same time. I have it not responding when I have had a couple of pdf’s Open with a word document also. Not always though. If it’s me causing the problem then this could be the reason why. Be interesting if others may be guilty of the same thing of asking the computer to do too much at the same time. My wife is the only one who can successfully multi task in our house.
Never apologise son, it's a sign of weakness (John Wayne)
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Loader sims freezing 07/08/2018 at 23:59 #110827
Muzer
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GeoffM in post 110824 said:
Muzer in post 110805 said:
While I'm on Linux/wine so don't know how this affects things
*If* it was the rollover issue then the problem is in the Delphi libraries, not the OS.
I meant more in terms of how the rollover (ie being on for 30 days) is modelled within wine.

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Loader sims freezing 08/08/2018 at 00:38 #110828
GeoffM
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Muzer in post 110827 said:
GeoffM in post 110824 said:
Muzer in post 110805 said:
While I'm on Linux/wine so don't know how this affects things
*If* it was the rollover issue then the problem is in the Delphi libraries, not the OS.
I meant more in terms of how the rollover (ie being on for 30 days) is modelled within wine.
Oh right, well, this is the ticket: http://qc.embarcadero.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=4174

Reportedly 24.8 days, not 30 like I said earlier. I'm in no mood to double check :)

I'm also about to release Loader 4.8.1 which includes this option (smooth scrolling) on the Control tab of F3/Options.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
Last edited: 08/08/2018 at 00:38 by GeoffM
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Loader sims freezing 08/08/2018 at 14:59 #110836
Steamer
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northroad in post 110826 said:
I think in my case it could be associated with having to many programmes open at the same time. I have it not responding when I have had a couple of pdf’s Open with a word document also. Not always though. If it’s me causing the problem then this could be the reason why. Be interesting if others may be guilty of the same thing of asking the computer to do too much at the same time. My wife is the only one who can successfully multi task in our house.
Unless you're using a computer that was built in the 90s, you aren't likely to be over-taxing it with a few documents and SimSig.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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