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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing

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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 06/01/2015 at 15:02 #67438
TimTamToe
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Hi everyone,

I'm currently testing an updated TT I've written, and one of my testers and I have noticed a problem with the dwell times. Using Loader 4.3 Vic Central 1.3 2010s mode. I don't recall having the issue on previous versions.

I have set each individual train to have a manual turnaround (dwell time) at Victoria through the f4 menu on each train. i.e on each arriving train at Victoria Central in the dwell time box I have x minutes rather than by train type.

It's been noticed in testing that late arriving trains are TRTSing on the scheduled next departure time and not adhering to the dwell. In the example attached 2N15 is about 4 minutes late (due 09:36 if on time) with a 4 min dwell time. It arrives about 09:40 and TRTS at 09:40. (Scheduled dep time if on time 09:41)

As I say the TT is an update so the original was written on older versions of the loader and sim so could this be a reason? No errors relating to the dwells were detected during the TT analysis.

Any ideas?

Gareth

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Last edited: 06/01/2015 at 15:09 by TimTamToe
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 06/01/2015 at 15:52 #67440
Finger
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Interesting!

FYI, I just reproduced the same behavior on KingsX (see attached timetable).

What I found out so far:

- this timetable works as intended (5A01 departs KNGX at about 0:30) on loader 4.1.1
- it doesn't work like that on the newest loader (4.3)
- however, after adding dwell time to the departing train, the new loader seems to pick it up (not the old one though)
- so maybe, just copying the dwell times to the first timing point of the departing train will fix it

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Last edited: 06/01/2015 at 15:53 by Finger
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 07/01/2015 at 00:18 #67468
TimTamToe
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Thanks Finger, I'll see if that works...although not looking forward to having to change the dwells for 4000 trains!

As the tt worked fine before with the dwells and this issue has only arisen since loader update 4.3 could one kf the developers please confirm whether this is now how dwell times need to be entered i.e dwell to be on first location of New departing train rather than on the terminating train as previously or is this a bug that has crept in with the New loader update?

Gareth

Last edited: 07/01/2015 at 00:20 by TimTamToe
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 07/01/2015 at 05:52 #67470
GeoffM
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Whoa, let me check things first (might take a few days).
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 07/01/2015 at 08:04 #67472
TimTamToe
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No worries Geoff, I know I've given you a few things to investigate this week what with the loss of headcode at Crystal Palace too. I wasn't sure if I'd missed a change in how to enter the dwells, like I did with the platform sharing, where I noticed after a forum searchyou now need the second train to have the first train's New and previous id's for the call on to work.

Gareth

Last edited: 07/01/2015 at 08:27 by TimTamToe
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 09/06/2015 at 21:06 #73106
Danny252
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" said:
Whoa, let me check things first (might take a few days).
Did you ever get around to checking?

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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 11/06/2015 at 15:47 #73149
GeoffM
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" said:
" said:
Whoa, let me check things first (might take a few days).
Did you ever get around to checking? :)
I did and the results were inconclusive - some did wait correctly; others didn't, when they were basically the same timetable sequence. More investigation required: sorry it's taken so long.

Raised as 13617 to remind me/Clive.

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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 13/06/2015 at 19:15 #73297
Jan
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Whilst playing Wimbledon with the default timetable, I've observed the following phenomenon:
A train (e.g. 2B88) arrives at Waterloo at 08:58:58. Its next working (5Y16) was due at 08:58 and because of this bug, TRTS is given two seconds after the inbound working has arrived.
Because of other delayed trains, I'm unable to set the route right away, so after two minutes, the driver calls me.
Now strangely enough, besides the standard options (call back in 2/5/15 minutes), I'm also able to tell the driver to wait for his booked time, which in this case is given as 08:57½. So for some reason, the telephone code does take the specified "Terminate reverse" dwell time into account, while the regular departure and TRTS code doesn't.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
Last edited: 13/06/2015 at 19:17 by Jan
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 13/06/2015 at 20:26 #73299
GeoffM
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" said:
Whilst playing Wimbledon with the default timetable, I've observed the following phenomenon:
A train (e.g. 2B88) arrives at Waterloo at 08:58:58. Its next working (5Y16) was due at 08:58 and because of this bug, TRTS is given two seconds after the inbound working has arrived.
Because of other delayed trains, I'm unable to set the route right away, so after two minutes, the driver calls me.
Now strangely enough, besides the standard options (call back in 2/5/15 minutes), I'm also able to tell the driver to wait for his booked time, which in this case is given as 08:57½. So for some reason, the telephone code does take the specified "Terminate reverse" dwell time into account, while the regular departure and TRTS code doesn't.
The TRTS code was changed several months ago to give TRTS up to one minute before departure, so if the turnaround time was ~30 seconds then yes, TRTS would have been given pretty much immediately after arrival. The earlier TRTS is per real life - some places it's given even earlier than that when the train clearly isn't ready (contradicting the title) :blink: .

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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 13/06/2015 at 20:47 #73300
John
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" said:
The earlier TRTS is per real life - some places it's given even earlier than that when the train clearly isn't ready (contradicting the title) :blink: .

In this little station which I will soon thankfully no longer be working at, it's sometimes given whilst the driver is still walking down the platform :doh, leading inevitably to a queue of trains waiting outside whilst the train sits with the road off because the driver has discovered a fault, and has left the cab without first asking the signaller to replace the signal. :doh :doh :doh


That is, of course, assuming that there was ever a driver there in the first place... :doh :doh :doh :doh

Last edited: 13/06/2015 at 21:00 by John
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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 13/06/2015 at 22:41 #73305
mfcooper
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" said:
In this little station which I will soon thankfully no longer be working at...

That sounds like news, John!

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Dwell Time bug / issue during testing 14/06/2015 at 09:50 #73319
Jan
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I've realised I've managed to mistype the departure times, which makes my post rather nonsensical :doh
Here's the corrected version:
A train (e.g. 2B88) arrives at Waterloo at 08:50:58. Its next working (5Y16) was due at 08:50 and because of this bug, TRTS is given two seconds after the inbound working has arrived.
Because of other delayed trains, I'm unable to set the route right away, so after two minutes, the driver calls me.
Now strangely enough, besides the standard options (call back in 2/5/15 minutes), I'm also able to tell the driver to wait for his booked time, which in this case is given as 08:57½.

So for some reason, while the train itself is ignoring the custom "Terminate reverse" dwell time, within the telephone window it's applied correctly - an arrival time of 08:50:58 plus seven minutes of custom dwell time corresponds to 08:57½.

Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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