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| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 17:36 #70673 | |
Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
West Coast Railway Company has been suspended from running trains from midnight tonight. Appears to be related to Tangmere passing a signal at danger at Wooton Bassett the other week. http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/statement-west-coast-railways-suspension-notice Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 18:18 #70677 | |
Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:Appears to be related to Tangmere passing a signal at danger at Wooton Bassett the other week.For anyone unaware of the incident, details can be found on this page of the RAIB website. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 22:08 #70684 | |
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Steam Buff
101 posts |
according to the bbc news website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-32167724) it wasnt Tanmere, it was Olton Hall aka Hogwarts express
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| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 22:24 #70686 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:according to the bbc news website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-32167724) it wasnt Tanmere, it was Olton Hall aka Hogwarts expressAs Olton Hall is "stuffed" in the Harry Potter studio tour I think we can discount that! "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 22:26 #70687 | |
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Steam Buff
101 posts |
i was only going by what the bbc report said. Lol
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| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 22:38 #70688 | |
jc92
3630 posts |
" said:according to the bbc news website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-32167724) it wasnt Tanmere, it was Olton Hall aka Hogwarts expressNot at all. it simply indicates that WCRC own Olton Hall and never mentions what was involved in the Incident. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 23:32 #70690 | |
belly buster
368 posts |
I don't have any inside knowledge on this, but I will relay my experiences with this type of situation in different industries. The nature and wording of that Network Rail memo is quite exceptional and indicates a total failure of control at WCR. Withdrawing a license in this manner is exceptionally risky. It opens up a huge opportunity for legal challenge as effectively WCR cannot secure any revenues while operations are suspended, not to mention reputation damage from this being made public. So you would have to assume NR must be 100% cast iron on it's position in respect to this suspension. Again, just in my experience, and with zero knowledge, I would suspect financial difficulties lay at the heart of this. Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 02/04/2015 at 23:50 #70692 | |
pedroathome
889 posts |
Two points here. Firstly, If there was any safety concerns of any trains I was to be traveling on, or even past, then I would much rather that train didn't run. Forget the possible public image here. Better to look bad than have potentially a single preventable death. Secondly, in regards to the revenue, who is to say that they can't sub contract any trips? If another operator is willing to operate the train for them, under the "new" operators conditions, then can there be any issues with this in the same way> Finally, looking at the RAIBs initial statement Quote: makes it look like the train in question had to cross the junction in some way. To put it bluntly here, a kettle vs HST, especially side on,, my bet would be with the steam loco coming out better off. Just to bring the RAIB link back into this here, here is the link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dangerous-occurrence-at-wootton-bassett-junction-wiltshire James Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 02:42 #70694 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
May be this the reason for the immediate suspension. Quote: "Network Rail said the decision had not been taken lightly. No-one from WCR could be reached for comment." Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 09:35 #70710 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
I don't think them not responding to a media request was the reason for suspension. If you mean did they ignore NR, the various publications suggested a meeting between both parties happened on Tuesday. I imagine it was this point when NR uncovered the scale of the problem. I assume that it's related to training and safety management processes (not) in place that NR realised on Tuesday. EDIT: Apologies for speculating. This post to be taken with large pinch of salt! Last edited: 03/04/2015 at 09:36 by RainbowNines Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 09:58 #70713 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
I have heard of companies other than NR who having issues with WCRC over safety-related matters - it certainly sounds as if it was more than just the few publicly known issues that caused the suspension. Quote: Secondly, in regards to the revenue, who is to say that they can't sub contract any trips? If another operator is willing to operate the train for them, under the "new" operators conditions, then can there be any issues with this in the same way?I would suspect it's doable, although I don't know whether WCRC locos and stock could be used for such. Given how many tours WCRC run, it might be difficult to find operators able to cover all of them. Quote: Finally, looking at the RAIBs initial statement makes it look like the train in question had to cross the junction in some way. To put it bluntly here, a kettle vs HST, especially side on,, my bet would be with the steam loco coming out better off.Makes it look like? I mean, there's a diagram, so I'm not sure what ambiguity there is. 1Z67 was running on the Up Main and was to be held at the junction to permit a HST on the Up Badminton to pass first. The HST had luckily cleared the junction by the time that 1Z67 arrived, but either train could have been hit side on by the other, with results likely to be similar to the 1996 Southall crash. Last edited: 03/04/2015 at 10:06 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 12:59 #70717 | |
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Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:DRS and DBS also do charter work, but it depends if they have enough slack. However, only DBS have a steam license and don't handle vacuum braked locos. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 15:33 #70727 | |
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47417
13 posts |
Already subbed their operation out. Wonder who too? http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/download/Important.pdf Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 03/04/2015 at 15:39 #70728 | |
bfcmik
98 posts |
WCRC have announced that they are now in discussions with Network Rail (they had failed to attend previous safety discussions in January and March according to Network Rail) and that all planned tours using their locos will go ahead under different operators licences. This will include the Jacobean. Though the wording seems to imply that none of their engines will be used as it only mentions their MkII coaches. Their statement on facebook says: "Passenger safety is our number one priority. You may have read or seen news relating to Network Rail (owners of the lines used by West Coast Railways) and West Coast Railways. A recent breach of safety regulations involving one of our trains crossing a red light has led to discussions by both parties to establish how this happened and more importantly the preventative measures in place to ensure it can’t happen again. Although no one was injured in any way West Coast Railways consider this to be sufficient to carry out a full internal enquiry with the support of Network Rail, and at this time will not be running trains under their current used licence. However all trips remain unaffected and will run as normal under licence of another operator, using the same vintage Mk2 carriages. Passengers will not be affected and all schedules including the Jacobite will continue as normal. Safety is a primary importance to both West Coast Railways and Network Rail and as such both parties MUST be absolutely satisfied with the safety measures in place to prevent any such future happenings, through continued discussions, and when both parties are satisfied it is hoped that West Coast Railways will resume operation under licence." Strangely they infer that it is they who have decided not to use their licence rather than admitting they have had it suspended! Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 23/04/2015 at 08:56 #71365 | |
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Steam Buff
101 posts |
Hi Is there any update on this situation yet? Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 23/04/2015 at 09:28 #71366 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
The ORR are now looking at suspending WCRC's safety certification, and it would appear that WCRC completely failed at their objective to ensure that "passengers will not be affected and all schedules including the Jacobite will continue as normal.", going by the number of red "CANCELLED" entries on uksteam.info.
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| West Coast Suspended 23/04/2015 at 11:30 #71370 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2026 posts |
West Coast were probably more-or-less obliged to claim that, and it was equally more or less certain that there would not be enough capacity with other operators to fulfil every charter WCRC had booked.
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| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 01:23 #71406 | |
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Frankley Junction
37 posts |
If you read the RAIB press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dangerous-occurrence-at-wootton-bassett-junction-wiltshire it is clear that the traincrew took action to disable the AWS/TPWS equipment on the loco. Otherwise, it would have been stopped by the action of the TPWS long before fouling the junction. Ergo, WCRC are in very deep water indeed if they in any way condone their crews acting in that way, and have not scrupulously followed through with a debrief/internal enquiry/appropriate disciplinary action for those concerned. The data from the loco is the watertight/cast iron evidence that Network Rail has. Really sad, but until they sort themselves out thoroughly, WCRC are quite correctly being prevented from running. You cannot have people indiscriminately disabling safety critical equipment and not obeying Network Rail rules. Last edited: 24/04/2015 at 01:24 by Frankley Junction Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 04:47 #71407 | |
Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:The ORR are now looking at suspending WCRC's safety certification, and it would appear that WCRC completely failed at their objective to ensure that "passengers will not be affected and all schedules including the Jacobite will continue as normal.", going by the number of red "CANCELLED" entries on uksteam.info.Well........... bugger. I'm booked to go on the Jacobite in September - coming all the way from Australia to do so. Looks like I'll have to take my business elsewhere. Does WCRC run the Belmond Pullman? Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 05:11 #71408 | |
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Ron_J
329 posts |
Don't be too hasty and write anything off just now - just wait and see what happens. The Jacobite brings millions of pounds to the West Highland economy every year (it has been running in one form or another since 1984) and it will not be politically acceptable to the Scottish Government for it to simply cease operating. I can certainly foresee WCRC's Safety Certificate being revoked, hence their Network Licence effectively being rendered invalid and not worth the paper it is written on, but a deal will have to be done to transfer their Scottish operation to someone, probably Abellio ScotRail.
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| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 06:05 #71409 | |
Peter Bennet
5360 posts |
" said:" said:BBC and accurate reporting - hmm - it'll never happen.according to the bbc news website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-32167724) it wasnt Tanmere, it was Olton Hall aka Hogwarts expressNot at all. it simply indicates that WCRC own Olton Hall and never mentions what was involved in the Incident. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Hooverman |
| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 12:07 #71419 | |
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Steamer
3923 posts |
" said:Don't be too hasty and write anything off just now - just wait and see what happens. The Jacobite brings millions of pounds to the West Highland economy every year (it has been running in one form or another since 1984) and it will not be politically acceptable to the Scottish Government for it to simply cease operating. I can certainly foresee WCRC's Safety Certificate being revoked, hence their Network Licence effectively being rendered invalid and not worth the paper it is written on, but a deal will have to be done to transfer their Scottish operation to someone, probably Abellio ScotRail.Problem being that Scot Rail doesn't have a steam licence, they'd have to see if DBS could do it, or go diesel. " said: Does WCRC run the Belmond Pullman?Belmond is with DBS I believe. According a letter from another tour operator (posted on another forum), there's a meeting between WCRC and NR today. The tour operator understands that WCRC have done as NR have requested, so let's hope the meeting is a good one. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 12:46 #71421 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
This is another reason of why it is better to own your track instead of being a tenant.
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| West Coast Suspended 24/04/2015 at 16:36 #71426 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:This is another reason of why it is better to own your track instead of being a tenant.Why? So you could potentially cover up near misses, and pretend they didn't happen? Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Sacro, andyb0607, LucasLCC, flabberdacks |