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Euston P1 to DC line?

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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 16:26 #71690
as1981
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All,

Would anyone mind helping me with the attached? I think 5L88 is in front of 5L91? I think they both want the same path?

Neither of them are calling about the path (wrong route e.t.c) but aren't moving but I can't work out why?

Thanks

Andrew

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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 16:36 #71692
Steamer
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The train is supposed to be on Platform 10, and has been set up to have DC as it's initial power type. P.1 is AC only, so it can't move.

To cure: Open F4, open 5L91-1's timetable, click 'Train Characteristics', tick both 'AC' boxes and click OK. Then, open F2, right click 5L91-1, Timetable Options> Run to another timetable, ensure 5L91-1 is highlighted and click OK. The train will then move.

As an aside, you've set the route out of P1 to the white shunt arrow at signal 63. You should cancel this and set the route to signal 63 itself. The shunt arrow should only be used for trains that are reversing behind signal 51.

Question for the developers- why won't the train switch to AC power when the train can use it? What's the purpose of 'inital power'?

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 17:52 #71694
as1981
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Hello,

Thank you for your help.

I think I've done as you advised but it still won't move. I've attached a new save if anyone doesn't mind having a look.

Thanks

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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 18:02 #71695
Steamer
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" said:
Hello,

Thank you for your help.

I think I've done as you advised but it still won't move. I've attached a new save if anyone doesn't mind having a look.

Thanks
Have you followed the instructions precisely? I've double checked, and the train will leave the station at around 05:59.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 18:23 #71697
as1981
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Thank you for your help.

Sorry I made a mistake when following the instructions.

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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 18:49 #71699
Steamer
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" said:
Thank you for your help.

Sorry I made a mistake when following the instructions.
No problem, happy to help

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 18:50 #71700
clive
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" said:

Question for the developers- why won't the train switch to AC power when the train can use it?
Trains don't change traction just because they detect a new kind of power available; it usually requires specific driver action. Those that do can be modelled as having more than one kind of current power at the same time.

Quote:
What's the purpose of 'inital power'?
"Initial power" is to distinguish "traction types this train has" from "traction type this train is currently using". After all, most trains don't run on two kinds of traction at the same time and for a long time all trains had to stop to change power.

At the point this went in, requiring a new timetable to change traction seemed a reasonable approach. Somewhere on the "to do" list is a "change traction" activity at a station. And I suppose we should think about the ability to change traction on the move.

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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 19:18 #71701
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" said:
" said:

Question for the developers- why won't the train switch to AC power when the train can use it?
Trains don't change traction just because they detect a new kind of power available; it usually requires specific driver action. Those that do can be modelled as having more than one kind of current power at the same time.

Quote:
What's the purpose of 'inital power'?
"Initial power" is to distinguish "traction types this train has" from "traction type this train is currently using". After all, most trains don't run on two kinds of traction at the same time and for a long time all trains had to stop to change power.

At the point this went in, requiring a new timetable to change traction seemed a reasonable approach. Somewhere on the "to do" list is a "change traction" activity at a station. And I suppose we should think about the ability to change traction on the move.
I don't understand- in reality, a driver would change traction as and when it was appropriate, without intervention from the signaller. Under this system, if a train on NLL had to be diverted onto the AC lines at Cannonbury, you'd have to dive into the timetable editor and create timetables/add traction change activities to accomplish something that the driver would do themselves.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 21:04 #71704
Noisynoel
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No you don't. You just write the timetables with both power types as being AC & DC, that way it will use either type of traction with no intervention.
Noisynoel
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 21:14 #71705
Steamer
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" said:
No you don't. You just write the timetables with both power types as being AC & DC, that way it will use either type of traction with no intervention.
It depends- if the timetable writer used the method outlined by Clive, you'd have to.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Euston P1 to DC line? 04/05/2015 at 23:57 #71707
Muzer
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Hmm. It's a difficult problem. I reckon the best solution, if this can be done, would be a mix of the two.

This is the way I would do it. I would say that for each train, it should be possible to define a "traction change speed", which is the speed the train must be travelling at to change traction (0 obviously means that the train has to stop, as happens in real life currently). There would also be "traction change time" or similar, which is how long the traction change takes, once the target speed has been reached.

Then, when a train approaches a changeover section, the sim checks if a changeover is necessary. If it is, the train is brought to the target speed for the traction change time. For timetabled traction changes during a stop, obviously the stop will be timetabled (like at North Pole Jn), and there may be a custom action specified so that the signaller knows what the stop is for, but I do not believe the existence or not of this action in the timetable should make a practical difference to what happens — the train stop and the traction change will happen in the sim "in parallel" as it were whether or not the traction change is actually timetabled, and the train will not be stopped for any longer (unless timetabled) or shorter than necessary. And even if the traction change isn't in the timetable *at all*, the train should still stop (or reduce speed, depending on the traction change speed mentioned above), to cater for cases of trains being diverted.



Obviously I don't know how easy it would be to implement this way. What do others think? Have I missed some important case that needs consideration?

Last edited: 04/05/2015 at 23:58 by Muzer
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