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Timetables for chaining.....

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Timetables for chaining..... 18/05/2015 at 11:20 #72400
DaveHarries
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Afternoon all,

I am currently putting together a timetable for SimSig (Bristol) to reflect the workings around the closure of Bathampton Junction between 01st & 31st August this year (it will be closed 24/7!). Although I am starting with a Bristol TT as it is my home sim I also intend on doing ones for the neighbouring Westbury & SwinDid sims with the idea that it would be possible to chain up.

Although I am doing the routes as far as I can for Bristol would that still chain automatically with the neighbouring sim when I write the train in for that sim or do I have to do something else to the TT as well? This is the first time I have tried writing a chainable TT so I have absolutely no idea.

Cheers,
Dave

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Timetables for chaining..... 18/05/2015 at 11:43 #72402
pedroathome
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Just write the timetable as normal for both sims. Just make sure that the timing points at the last couple locations, say going from Bristol into Swindon (A), that you have Bathampton Jn and Thingley Jn as the same times on each.

Will work either way. And say you don't have a train that is timetabled into the next sim, you will just get a message saying something like non timetabled train (or something like that, unsure of the actual message) as the train enters the second sim, and vice versa.

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Timetables for chaining..... 18/05/2015 at 15:11 #72415
Steamer
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As Pedroathome says, there's nothing you have to do specially to get the timetables to chain. There are a couple of things you have to be aware of, though:


  • Train formations should be consistent between simulations, especially where divides and joins are concerned.It's best to work these out 'on paper' before writing anything in SimSig

  • Each train should have its own unique identity to avoid complications with trains crossing boundaries. If 1G00 enters Bristol from Westbury in a chain, and there two 1G00s in the Bristol timetable, there's no guarantee that the correct one will be selected. The chaining code can usually match it to the correct one, but there's no guarantee and aas Bristol is an old simulation the code might be less clever. Ideally you'd use UIDs, but as Bristol isn't on the Loader, you'll need to use 1G00-1, 1G00-2 etc., and ensure they're consistent across all the timetables

  • [li]Trains entering at a chain location just after midnight need special consideration. For instance, a train entering Bristol at Hullavington at 00:01 won't appear when chained- you have to make sure the train is seeded in SwinDid. This requires more thought for trains leaving Bristol, as you can't seed them directly at signals. You'll have to use a bit of license to have them running late from the closest signal to the boundary in Bristol, or early from a seed/siding in Swindon.


Hope this helps!

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 16:44 #72480
DaveHarries
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" said:
Just write the timetable as normal for both sims. Just make sure that the timing points at the last couple locations, say going from Bristol into Swindon (A), that you have Bathampton Jn and Thingley Jn as the same times on each.

Will work either way. And say you don't have a train that is timetabled into the next sim, you will just get a message saying something like non timetabled train (or something like that, unsure of the actual message) as the train enters the second sim, and vice versa.

Thanks for the tip on this. Bathampton Junction won't feature on the new TT as all HSTs are on diversion. However I think I am right in saying that SwinDid doesn't have "Westerleigh Junction" on its list of destinations - only Hullavington is in common with Bristol. For the entry tim at "Chipping Sodbury (Down Badminton)" I guess I would just use the time at Westerleigh Junction?

Dave

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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 16:54 #72481
Sacro
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For some stupid reason Swindid got the entry point as Chipping Sodbury, which is non-mandatory except for trains that loop there. Hopefully at some point the sim will be extended back to Westerleigh so that you don't need to calculate/guess the correct entry time.
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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 17:00 #72482
DaveHarries
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Yes quite. But Westerleigh Junction is near enough to Chipping Sodbury so I will use that and hopwe for the best, unless advised otherwise.

Dave

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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 17:29 #72485
JamesN
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" said:
For some stupid reason Swindid got the entry point as Chipping Sodbury, which is non-mandatory except for trains that loop there. Hopefully at some point the sim will be extended back to Westerleigh so that you don't need to calculate/guess the correct entry time.
While I do not support the decision to have Chipping Sodbury as the entry point, I'd postulate that he "stupid reason" is that Chipping Sodbury is the location of a heavily-used goods loop, and is also the limit of reversible working on the Badminton lines. It presumably made sense to treat this as a mandatory timing point at a time when the auto CIF-generated timetables we (specifically) have become accustomed to writing weren't really available. When you're manually writing out each train calculating an entry offset isn't exactly arduous additional work.

However, I do agree that it is a hindrance. I raised on mantis a couple of years ago the suggestion of moving the entry point back (#10252 applies) As far as I'm aware the issue is still outstanding.

Dave to answer your query more directly, For HSTs I'd take the Westerleigh time and add 1H minutes.

Last edited: 19/05/2015 at 17:30 by JamesN
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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 18:08 #72490
Sacro
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" said:
Chipping Sodbury is the location of a heavily-used goods loop
True... I can think of far worse chosen entry points!

Last edited: 19/05/2015 at 18:09 by Sacro
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Timetables for chaining..... 19/05/2015 at 18:16 #72493
GeoffM
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" said:
" said:
For some stupid reason Swindid got the entry point as Chipping Sodbury, which is non-mandatory except for trains that loop there. Hopefully at some point the sim will be extended back to Westerleigh so that you don't need to calculate/guess the correct entry time.
While I do not support the decision to have Chipping Sodbury as the entry point, I'd postulate that he "stupid reason" is that Chipping Sodbury is the location of a heavily-used goods loop, and is also the limit of reversible working on the Badminton lines. It presumably made sense to treat this as a mandatory timing point at a time when the auto CIF-generated timetables we (specifically) have become accustomed to writing weren't really available. When you're manually writing out each train calculating an entry offset isn't exactly arduous additional work.
Correct. Perhaps the accuser might like to engage brain before fingers next time.

SimSig Boss
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Timetables for chaining..... 21/05/2015 at 17:33 #72573
Stephen Fulcher
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The other thing is what is and is not a mandatory timing point is subject to change. I don't know if that is the case here, and I certainly cannot be bothered to waste the time finding out.

Geoff would know more so than I but I suspect at the time the original Swindon simulation was written this was far less of an issue than today with the way timetables are imported from data as opposed to being actually written in the simulation itself. Although potentialy time-consuming it is not really all that difficult to go through the timetable and add a couple of minutes on to the Westerleigh time for each train as a guestimate as to when it should pass Chipping Sodbury - and the chances of being miles out are fairly remote.

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Timetables for chaining..... 21/05/2015 at 21:28 #72576
DaveHarries
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" said:
Dave to answer your query more directly, For HSTs I'd take the Westerleigh time and add 1H minutes.

Thanks James. What about Class 150 (75mph) & 158 (90mph) DMUs? Some of those are on the Badminton line as well.

Dave

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Timetables for chaining..... 21/05/2015 at 21:39 #72577
Stephen Fulcher
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2 minutes should be about right Dave.
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Timetables for chaining..... 21/05/2015 at 21:40 #72578
Steamer
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It's about three miles from Westerleigh to Chipping Sodbury, so at 75 mph that's about 2 and a half minutes, and 2 minutes at 90mph.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Timetables for chaining..... 21/05/2015 at 22:58 #72579
DaveHarries
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" said:
It's about three miles from Westerleigh to Chipping Sodbury, so at 75 mph that's about 2 and a half minutes, and 2 minutes at 90mph.

Thanks. I will add on accordingly.

Dave

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