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How to permit train in opposite track?

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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 13:37 #77806
FlyingA
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9 posts
Hi.

Any one who can cast some light on, how I can lead a train in the opposite track? (driving in the right side) ?

I would like to sent a train from Newton-On-AYR to UP - AYR through the PA323L signal in the "wrong side" all the way to Barassie, where it will revert to the "normal" track.

Best regards
Andreas

Ps. Dont ask why, its due to a simple brainfart by the controller

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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 14:14 #77807
madaboutrains
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250 posts
I don't think you can authorise a driver to go wrong line in real life with out some form of ticket? (correct me someone!) However in simsig you could just authorise him to pass the signal at Danger.
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The following user said thank you: FlyingA
How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 14:28 #77808
Danny252
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1461 posts
Quite simply not possible as a signalled move, as there's no way of protecting the train from hitting another running the "right way".

Also, it's not guaranteed to work if you ask him to pass the signal at danger, as Simsig tracks can be coded to work in one direction only (although I believe it's been stated that they're made to work bidirectionally these days).

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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 14:39 #77809
headshot119
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3379 posts
" said:
Quite simply not possible as a signalled move, as there's no way of protecting the train from hitting another running the "right way".

Also, it's not guaranteed to work if you ask him to pass the signal at danger, as Simsig tracks can be coded to work in one direction only (although I believe it's been stated that they're made to work bidirectionally these days).
Speaking as a developer: It's that the tracks aren't coded to work in both directions, rather than tracks being deliberately coded to only work in one direction.

"CHECK Do you stop at Capenhurst?" - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 15:19 #77812
Danny252
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1461 posts
Yes, sorry if I implied that it was a deliberate effort to ensure things only go one way!
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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 16:12 #77813
FlyingA
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9 posts
Thanks guys. Guess I will have to radio the driver to pass the signal at danger.

It looks like it could be made possible at a later stage since the PA323L-SIGNAL is there to make the route.
Thanks "headshot119" for your answer as well - nice to have a programmers point of view as well...

Enjoy your day :-)
Cheers

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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 17:11 #77816
Jersey_Mike
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250 posts
" said:
Quite simply not possible as a signalled move, as there's no way of protecting the train from hitting another running the "right way".

Also, it's not guaranteed to work if you ask him to pass the signal at danger, as Simsig tracks can be coded to work in one direction only (although I believe it's been stated that they're made to work bidirectionally these days).
Yeah, I asked about this before when the uppity driver informed me that he had run out of valid track! :angry:

Can someone please import the concept of a Form D. The UK is so full of single direction ABS I would have thought the need for one would have been obvious

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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 17:59 #77818
Peter Bennet
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4651 posts
I think these days that if the developer codes a subroute one way then a default 40mph is created in the opposing subroute. The running out of track is where the developer has either omitted to connect the track end to another track or explicitly blocked it - in eras for example.

I've not tested this, it's just my recollection of how it works.

Peter

My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
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How to permit train in opposite track? 17/11/2015 at 18:48 #77821
Lardybiker
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771 posts
A recent feature when building sims is a check to make sure that the TC's are correctly connected in both directions so the run out of valid track should be virtually non-existent for newer sims.

Prior to that, you could easily miss a connection and wouldn't know until the train hit the "run out of valid track" error.

To give you some idea, when the new check was introduced to the build process, my rebuild of South Humberside had a several dozen TC errors, none of which had been spotted during normal running. From memory almost all, if not all of them were connections in the wrong direction to normal train running (down direction on the up line or vice versa).

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How to permit train in opposite track? 18/11/2015 at 10:10 #77838
kbarber
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1445 posts
" said:
Hi.

Any one who can cast some light on, how I can lead a train in the opposite track? (driving in the right side) ?

I would like to sent a train from Newton-On-AYR to UP - AYR through the PA323L signal in the "wrong side" all the way to Barassie, where it will revert to the "normal" track.

Best regards
Andreas

Ps. Dont ask why, its due to a simple brainfart by the controller ;)
Oooh, SLW. Used to be a potent source of Sunday overtime that did, when I were a lad.

A senior supervisor to be Responsible Officer (quite often the local manager would grab that job for himself, unless he was an MS grade - management staff weren't paid overtime but if it was actually in the supervisor grades there was probably a nice long Sunday to claim.) A relief signalman to be Pilotman (a decent reliefman would know every bit of time and allowances there was to make it worth his being there... a lot of those guys took home more than their area manager :whistle: ). A couple of blocked road men to put down the detonator protection. You get the picture?

What do you mean SLW in an emergency to get yourself out of a hole when you've boxed the job up? Definitely too much like hard work for not enough money, especially if it's within everyone's booked hours .

We've never done it with just a piece of paper on this side of the Pond, Mike. Quite apart from what the Board of Trade and its successors would've said ('twas them wanted every train to have a d****d great lump of wood as authority to occupy a single line section), we simply have too much traffic to get away with that sort of thing.

It would be interesting to work out how to simulate SLW as a general feature in Simsig though. I know Clive has done it in Cambridge, but that's a very particular feature and I guess needed a fair bit of programming (the fact it hasn't been repeated may or may not be confirmation).

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How to permit train in opposite track? 18/11/2015 at 10:41 #77841
clive
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2001 posts
" said:

It would be interesting to work out how to simulate SLW as a general feature in Simsig though. I know Clive has done it in Cambridge, but that's a very particular feature and I guess needed a fair bit of programming (the fact it hasn't been repeated may or may not be confirmation).
The code is at least semi-generic: you have to build the locations (e.g. entry and exit signals) into the sim but nothing about the SLW code is Cambridge-specific.

It's still in the core code (I'm not sure if it's compiled into the loader or not) but I haven't got round to adding it to the simulation language so there's no way for modern sims to use it. At some point I need to decide whether to add it to the language or rip the code out and provide another way for sim authors to do it.

I don't think it will ever be possible to just set up SLW on a random piece of track without the sim author having allowed for it beforehand.

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How to permit train in opposite track? 18/11/2015 at 10:56 #77844
clive
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2001 posts
" said:
To give you some idea, when the new check was introduced to the build process, my rebuild of South Humberside had a several dozen TC errors, none of which had been spotted during normal running. From memory almost all, if not all of them were connections in the wrong direction to normal train running (down direction on the up line or vice versa).
Actually, while that error looks like it's just a wrong-direction issue, it can cause other problems as well.

I recall that Wembley Main would hang up (the core code went into an infinite loop) in certain specific circumstances because of just such a mistake.

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How to permit train in opposite track? 18/11/2015 at 11:14 #77847
Stephen Fulcher
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1499 posts
Online
" said:
" said:

It would be interesting to work out how to simulate SLW as a general feature in Simsig though. I know Clive has done it in Cambridge, but that's a very particular feature and I guess needed a fair bit of programming (the fact it hasn't been repeated may or may not be confirmation).
The code is at least semi-generic: you have to build the locations (e.g. entry and exit signals) into the sim but nothing about the SLW code is Cambridge-specific.

It's still in the core code (I'm not sure if it's compiled into the loader or not) but I haven't got round to adding it to the simulation language so there's no way for modern sims to use it. At some point I need to decide whether to add it to the language or rip the code out and provide another way for sim authors to do it.

I don't think it will ever be possible to just set up SLW on a random piece of track without the sim author having allowed for it beforehand.
There is nothing to stop a disciplined user setting up SLW without the Simsig calls however - I have done it before on a multiplayer and just as the host acted as the pilotman and the signallers just ordered trains to pass the protecting signal at danger.

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