Upgrade of Legacy Exe Simulations - Donationware versus Payware

Thanks for all of the responses to this thread.

It appears the majority of responders accept the principle of paying for new simulations, although it has been rightly pointed out this can put them beyond the reach of some members of the community.

In terms of significant upgrades (e.g. Paged/Exe to Loader/Scrolly) there is also interest in supporting these financially, especially if it might lead to some old favourites being brought up to the latest standards. The decision on whether any particular simulation is upgraded appears to be with the original developer.

Accepting any issues around lack of formal support and future upgrades there is interest in the last version of Donationware simulation remaining available in the event of a simulation moving to Payware following a significant upgrade.

Donationware is seen to be a good entry point for new members of the community and it has been suggested a few flagship simulations (e.g. Kings Cross) ideally need to stay in this model to allow new members to sample a full range of simulations (i.e. small and large control areas) before making any decision to buy - in fact a number of responders who were drawn into the community in this way have since gone on to make a number of purchases.

I'll leave the interesting point of Working Timetable development for another day - beyond pointing out another UK Signalling Simulation provider charges between £5 and £15 per additional WTT and this is on top of circa £30 per simulation.

I'm sure 2016 will provide another batch of excellent simulations and WTT for us to enjoy - thanks to all the simulation and WTT developers for their time.

I feel that the idea of charging people for extra timetables is a bad idea. It would put me off purchasing Payware if I didn't get unlimited timetables with those sims.

" said:

I feel that the idea of charging people for extra timetables is a bad idea. It would put me off purchasing Payware if I didn't get unlimited timetables with those sims.

So you are happy to pay for the time that the developers take to get a sim together but then expect people writing TTs to do it for free? Doesn't sound a very friendly or thought-through arrangement to me.

" said:

The sims adjacent to King's Cross are crying out for an update, such as Peterborough and Cambridge. NLL scrolly appeared, then disappeared. A number of scrolly versions were developed, such as Peterborough, Sheffield, London Bridge, but these were never finished or released

I have a very vague memory that Clive stated, at some point in the past, that he planned to retain the paged format for Cambridge when it received updates. I might be misremembering, and it was some time ago of course, so that may be wrong. Am I right to think that it is still possible to produce a paged sim with the loader?

I feel that the idea of charging people for extra timetables is a bad idea. It would put me off purchasing Payware if I didn't get unlimited timetables with those sims.

As a timetable writer, I have no intention of charging for my TTs, if the facility was ever available.

I agree with you Steamer, I make timetables because I enjoy making and hope people enjoy playing them, it costs me nothing to make them, so why should I charge people.

What about a donation system for TT developers instead, if they want?

*snip*
This leaves the following simulations unaccounted for:
Bristol, Gloucester, Liverpool Lime Street, North London Line, Sheffield, Southampton, South Humberside, Trent and Worksop.

*snip*

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

Sounds very much like Bristol will have to be rewritten from scratch if there is a lot of bespoke code. Looking at the sim with the view of a former signalman there, it doesn't appear if there is a lot of non-standard stuff on there. I'm fairly sure that CANBIDS* has appeared on other sims, and the only other thing I can think of that might be non-standard is the BHT at Avonmouth.


Kev

* CANBIDS = Cheap & Nasty Bi-Directional Signalling. Formally called SIMBIDS (Simplified Bi-Directional Signalling).

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

" said:

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

Sounds very much like Bristol will have to be rewritten from scratch if there is a lot of bespoke code. Looking at the sim with the view of a former signalman there, it doesn't appear if there is a lot of non-standard stuff on there. I'm fairly sure that CANBIDS* has appeared on other sims, and the only other thing I can think of that might be non-standard is the BHT at Avonmouth.


Kev

* CANBIDS = Cheap & Nasty Bi-Directional Signalling. Formally called SIMBIDS (Simplified Bi-Directional Signalling).

When developers talk about Custom Code it isn't always for unusual features.

Things like the level crossings controlled by the crossing keepers had to be written in custom code at the time Bristol was written. (And many other things)

All that needs unpicking and doing in data for the sim to be released on the loader.

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

If anyone was to work on Bristol and wanted some assistance, I was a technician at Bristol for 8 years, so would be willing to lend a hand with information gathering of bits and pieces.

" said:

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

If anyone was to work on Bristol and wanted some assistance, I was a technician at Bristol for 8 years, so would be willing to lend a hand with information gathering of bits and pieces.

When were you there? I was a Signalman in the last days of BR and the first months of FailTrack.


Kev

" said:

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

If anyone was to work on Bristol and wanted some assistance, I was a technician at Bristol for 8 years, so would be willing to lend a hand with information gathering of bits and pieces.

When were you there? I was a Signalman in the last days of BR and the first months of FailTrack.


Kev

Kev somehow this and your avatar remind me of this: http://www.parliament.uk/edm/1990-91/795

2006-2014 on the fault team

" said:

" said:

" said:

I have a copy of the Bristol code somewhere, it runs to pages and pages of bespoke code which I suspect only Kurt understands the purpose of!

Peter

If anyone was to work on Bristol and wanted some assistance, I was a technician at Bristol for 8 years, so would be willing to lend a hand with information gathering of bits and pieces.

When were you there? I was a Signalman in the last days of BR and the first months of FailTrack.


Kev

Kev somehow this and your avatar remind me of this: http://www.parliament.uk/edm/1990-91/795

" said:

2006-2014 on the fault team

Ah right. I was there in the early 1990s and the techs were led by Bruce and Mark aka "Clumpy".


Kev

" said:

" said:

2006-2014 on the fault team

Ah right. I was there in the early 1990s and the techs were led by Bruce and Mark aka "Clumpy".


Kev

Marks still there, as is Andy Baker, Bruce is now in an office job. There were still a few signalmen from the era you'd have worked there in my time, the most prominent being Mike Radford.