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| Frustration! 11/02/2016 at 14:37 #80586 | |
Peter Bennet
5363 posts |
Thinking about it I'm not sure I've ever set out any "rules" for my testers though many (as Stephen says) do aim to break it. That's how I cut my teeth on SimSig - Exeter I believe where I (unofficially) took the released version apart and sent Geoff a report - think I still have them somewhere. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: NCC1701, norman B |
| Frustration! 11/02/2016 at 22:19 #80596 | |
GeoffM
6288 posts 
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We're going to spend a little longer getting Edge Hill as correct as possible. Please bear with us.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Frustration! 12/02/2016 at 13:36 #80615 | |
MrBitsy
121 posts |
" said:The platform conflicts are half the fun! I'd be very upset if the timetables were amended to correct any mistakes from the original.Platform & Junction conflicts in the real timetables, plus trains that overtake others with T3 possessions in place are normal everyday challenges for us signallers. Enjoy the challenge of sorting it out and minimising delays :-) TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Frustration! 12/02/2016 at 13:45 #80616 | |
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MrBitsy
121 posts |
" said:" said:I think working at the real West Hampstead would be pretty dull with 'perfect & sanitised' schedules. Every day we deal with trains turning up that nobody knows about, platform and junction timetabled clashes etc. Nobody likes the stress caused but it does make the job challenging and interesting :-)Perhaps the Wiki etc should be reworded with a passage which warns that the accuracy of the TT is not set at 100%But if we use the exact platform allocation specified by NR then it IS 100% accurate. Imagine a perfect timetable, all late running and incidents turned off - not realistic at all! Fine for learning traffic flows, junctions moves etc, but ramp up the late running & incidents, combined with a realistic timetable with errors existing in the real world then you have realism. Oh, give me your phone number so I can ring you to explain delays you cause while you are running a sim :-) TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford Last edited: 12/02/2016 at 13:48 by MrBitsy Log in to reply The following user said thank you: DriverCurran |
| Frustration! 12/02/2016 at 19:37 #80624 | |
Guts
586 posts |
I'm going to put in my 5 pence and say WE SIGNALLERS deal with conflicts and platform errors all the time I personally organised Euston Station 2012 - 2015 IN REAL LIFE!! When I would do the first issue of the simplifier, there would always be a few mistakes and error. I had to create a sheet for the signallers to jot down errors that needed to be corrected. We were lucky that we had someone from the box that could do it. Not every location has someone that can do it. Signallers are trained to deal with errors and eventualities that pop up. I think that everyone who purchases a sim should expect timetable errors, as they are a part of everyday signaller life. Last edited: 12/02/2016 at 19:39 by Guts Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Hooverman |
| Frustration 12/02/2016 at 20:00 #80625 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:I'm going to put in my 5 pence and say WE SIGNALLERS deal with conflicts and platform errors all the timeWell said, I've lost count the amount of times our weekend simplifies had trains running though T3 possessions, or using points that don't exist, mismatched inward and out was workings, timing clashes etc etc, it's all in a day's work and raised again and again and still TT planing get it wrong, so we just get on with it as the world is not perfect. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Guts, DriverCurran |
| Frustration 12/02/2016 at 20:33 #80627 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
This thread appears to have two similar but different points. 1. Quality of the timetable 2. Quality of the simulation 1 is open to interpretation although I enjoy the occasional conflict but I play with delays anyway so they get mixed into the bag. 2 is interesting. Some of the recently released Sims have issues with trains in the default timetable which it seems difficult to have missed eg Halewood Sidings trains dropping off. It is a little disapointing but Im a big beleiver in accepting mistakes if they are acknowledged and dealt with efficiently. Which is the same in my Job. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Frustration 12/02/2016 at 21:05 #80628 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
As the instigator of this subject,I am now dismayed to find that RW signalers need to come onto this post and justify how they work! If the thread is read in full you will find that at no point did I question what present day signalers do or how they deal with problems on a day to day basis. The thread is about the quality of what is produced for sale,and weather the quality of the sims and TT could be improved.I also suggested that the standard TT sold with each sim ,should in its easy form contain no or only a few conflicts. I raised these points as a non signaler but a railway buff,who used the help with the working book production at a NW station as well as producing the roller blinds for the public information displays in the early 1990s. I fell that my original concerns have given folks food for thought! Log in to reply |
| Frustration! 13/02/2016 at 00:31 #80634 | |
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Guts
586 posts |
Norman I think the point you're missing is that we do appreciate your frustration with the sims. While we RW Signallers cannot comment on the actual mechanism of sims as in faults or stuff missed in testing, we can comment on TT issues, which we deal with on a daily basis. I'm going to quote the SimSig homepage and I'm going to embolden and underline the relevant bits that I think people forget when they play the Sims "Welcome to the world of railway signalling! SimSig brings the signal box to your home PC and with it the enjoyment and frustrations of running today's (and some of yesterday's) railways. How often has your train been delayed because of "signal failure" and you've wondered why trains can't be routed around the problem - or why it is even a problem in the first place? You'll soon see exactly why - with SimSig! SimSig places you in the signaller's seat and lets you control the trains. You will be presented with an environment closely resembling a real signalling control centre, including the screen display and controls. It recreates the signalling as realistically as possible and it is up to you to route the trains to their destination and do your best to keep them on time. You will have to make the same kind of decisions that real signallers do to keep the railway running as smoothly as possible. Sounds easy, doesn't it? Well, it is ... until something goes wrong. Can you cope with the everyday challenges of late running trains, random delays, signal and point failures, engineering works, or bad weather?" With what I've highlighted above, I'm trying to let everyone understand that SimSig is an extremely close representation of what signallers have to deal with, and part of the realism that is brought, is timetabling issues. We as RW while we completely sympathise with your TT frustration but its something we and now yourselves have to deal with. Geoff has said the other problems on the Sim are in the process of being dealt with. I hope that once they are resolved you and others will continue to enjoy this highly realistic and enjoyable Sim. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: as1981 |
| Frustration! 13/02/2016 at 09:24 #80636 | |
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Peter Bennet
5363 posts |
There is nothing to stop anyone taking a supplied timetable and making a "perfect" version of it and uploading to the user area. Just remember to provided a suitable credit to the original author/source. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following users said thank you: sunocske, norman B |
| Frustration! 13/02/2016 at 11:19 #80637 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
Guts, Whilst I accept everything which you say,you are looking at it from someone associated with the system daily. If SimSig is trying to generate new members to this hobby,a lot of newcomers would like the ability to run through a simulation without too many problems and then by making use ofthe control boxes or by stepping up the grades of difficulty deal with the problems which you deal with as a matter of course. Make some of the smaller sims virtually trouble free for example and then as a customer steps up ,so the degree of difficulty does so. Log in to reply |
| Frustration! 13/02/2016 at 13:32 #80641 | |
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sunocske
114 posts |
" said:Make some of the smaller sims virtually trouble free for example and then as a customer steps up ,so the degree of difficulty does so.I think there are a bunch of "virtually trouble-free" smaller sims available: Leamington Spa, Aston, Horsham, Huddersfield, Oxted, Portsmouth, Shrewsbury, Salisbury and Watford Junction are simple enough for a newbie, and the supplied WTT's are quite simple too to handle, with clockface passenger services and occasional run-through freight trains. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Frustration! 15/02/2016 at 15:23 #80693 | |
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Westrail
26 posts |
Good on you Peter
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| Frustration! 15/02/2016 at 15:33 #80694 | |
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Westrail
26 posts |
I personally like SimSig because most sims have a choke point where you have to think on your feet as we say in Australia. Mainly the bigger ones Trent Sheffield Bristol that I have played
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| Frustration! 15/02/2016 at 15:36 #80695 | |
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Westrail
26 posts |
Sorry Peter didn't mention Edinburgh fantastic Sim
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Peter Bennet |
| Frustration! 15/02/2016 at 20:25 #80700 | |
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slatteryc
250 posts |
I have to say that I find OP mildly annoying. The hit/miss rationhere is ridiculously high. Simsig knocks it out of the park most of the time. IT IS NOT A GAME , the clue is in the name. If I want games that hold your hand I'll play COD. If you want a sim that'll annoy you take NLL or some other old whale, its like a cuckoo clock the stuff that goes wrong with it it reminds you constantly but its the first sim I played and the sense of wonder I had I will never forget Thanks folks Log in to reply |
| Frustration! 15/02/2016 at 20:41 #80702 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Simsig knocks it out of the park most of the time. IT IS NOT A GAME , the clue is in the name.Most people would class a simulation "played" (which is probably what most would call their use of Simsig) for enjoyment as a game - see e.g. flight simulators or driving/racing simulators. Simsig may be a rather accurate and high quality simulation, but those exist in the other categories mentioned too. Last edited: 15/02/2016 at 20:43 by Danny252 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Frustration! 16/02/2016 at 14:55 #80708 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
I've been in both camps. When I was very new and unfamiliar with everything I found it frustrating when I hit some problem as I my first assumption was that i'd made an error in understanding/operation and would contemplate that for a while (and re-read the manuals and search the forum). Then if I felt it was a timetable issue I wouldn't necessarily know what to do to try and fix it (or if I was going to make it worse). It added to the frustration if the problem was something that would seem to have an easy solution, or would not happen in real life (e.g. some timetable problem means a run-around loco stops in an odd place and thinks there's nothing more to do and waits for the joining train that is actually on an adjacent platform) I'd break open the timetable editor and try to figure out the semantics of that, which involves a learning curve in the effects of nudging the existing timetable up or down, and putting in new entries (and figuring out which stopping point you actually need which i'm sure is named correctly but might not be immediately obvious to the uninitiated so can take a bit of trial and error) As knowledge/experience increased I find it easier to spot what is likely to be a timetable issue now, and am more confident in editting a timetable to get around it, which seems like a really useful skill in general. For example some other thread recently spoke about how they got around a difficult track circuit failure by routing trains a completely different route & including reversals, not sure if they did that with manual instructions each time or by editting the timetable, but seems like an option compared to what would normally happen for me which was "oh that's a terrible track circuit failure, can't see how to keep my train to its original timetable until that's fixed so i'll just have to leave it sat here until it's fixed" All in all these timetable problems resulted in learning experiences that may graduate me to a more fun level where I can handle things better and have more a broader experience (fun) in general. Sometimes it's nice to run a sim when everything's perfect (getting to know it at first, or if you've had a bad stressful day in real life and just want to see something tick along nicely), but other times it's nice to face a challenge. Lastly, if you're not very confident with facing "interesting" problems, or haven't faced enough in the sim tech itself to get a feel for where the problem even is (bug in sim/bug in timetable locations/real-world timetable clash etc.) then I wouldn't be inclined to buy and attempt a new sim straight after release but give it a little while to bed in. I wish I had more time to operate all these sims! I find some of the bugs interesting as they reveal something of how it is implemented in the first place. I'm attempting to include a SimSig-like control system for my model railway and there are a lot of non-obvious problems to be faced around configuration, verification, and operation of track circuits/signals/routes/etc. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |