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| Keyboard route setting 12/06/2016 at 23:50 #83015 | |
madaboutrains
308 posts |
At a real IECC you have the option of using the mouse/ roller ball or if you want the keyboard aswell. I am thinking a keyboard route setting feature may be a useful advance feature. In SimSig just a command of "307AS" would be good for instance in a dialog box like the TD interposing one. Unlike the TD interposing box it would allow you to have it up if you need to signal a train manually "NX" style if needed. This would be used for setting routes but cancelling may be a problem which would have to be worked out.  I'm thinking this could a be an advance feature that is not told in detail in the sim manual (providing its the usual format) but instead just given a wiki page on how it works. For those that are interested the routes from a signal are numbered from left to right. A being the most left to B and so on. Then the last letter can either be a "M" for a main aspect route, "S" for shunt signal route, "C" for calling on and "P" or "PA" for POSA routes. See in the picture below: 
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| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 07:02 #83016 | |
sorabain
72 posts |
I'm sure this is a case of "expert mode" shortcuts, where you innately know which route you want rather than counting a,b,c..." every time (what would be the point if it slows you down and you might inadvertently skip one and set the wrong route), particularly in your example with a large number of routes, but it got me thinking... do you get any kind of visual feedback while typing (kind of like an "autocomplete" feature), e.g. showing "presumptive" routes in a different colour before you commit to setting it? Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 07:30 #83017 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Sorabain The facility is available in case the tracker ball and control buttons fail. So yes it's a pain to use, and if you had ARS you'd let that do most of the work but everything that you can do with tracker ball and button (swing points, place reminders, replace auto signals etc) can be achieved using the keyboard. A signaller no matter how much of an expert I would not know the route letter of every route, therefore counting is one option but as you point out it's a risky option. What they would use is the signallers route cards which tells them which route letter leads to which destination. Whilst it does add a level or realism I can't see many of us continuing to use SimSig if our mouse failed. Personally I'd be making my way to the shops to replace failed mouse! sw Log in to reply The following user said thank you: sorabain |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 08:49 #83018 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
This feature has already been requested on the issue tracker. I'll dig out the number later.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 09:56 #83020 | |
jc92
3631 posts |
Its a nice idea but it would require you to know the ID of every controlled signal on the panel (which SimSig doesnt display unlike the real thing), and every available route and aspect.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 13:12 #83024 | |
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madaboutrains
308 posts |
For example. You can learn signal numbers really easily once you know the area. It's very simple when you know how the numbering of routes work. Yes it's a bit complex but with sims like Salisbury and Euston with the signal numbers can be displayed it would make for more intreating game play.
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| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 15:35 #83028 | |
GeoffM
6287 posts |
" said:At a real IECC you have the option of using the tracker ball or if you want the keyboard as well for certain operations.FIFY. " said: At a Wembley for instance to get a route you type "R307AS" then hit "set" then the system will call WS307 route A. To cancel the route you type "R307AS" then hit "cancel".Also S123 S456 S789 [SET] to get routes from S123 to S456 and S456 to S789. " said: For those that are interested the routes from a signal are numbered from left to right. A being the most left to B and so on. Then the last letter can either be a "M" for a main aspect route, "S" for shunt signal route, "C" for calling on and "P" or "PA" for POSA routes. See in the picture below:In most places, yes. But former LMR routes were often numbered, such as R123(1M) (abbreviated to R1231M in a keyboard command). Scotland went further and numbered the main route as 1 with other routes in some order that might have been logical at the time to the signal designer. Geographic interlockings seem to skip numbers/letters too, probably to bridge out electronically logical but geographically illogical routes (wiggles). Some areas use P and NP for permissive and non-permissive shunt routes respectively. Always exceptions. You could use the Gateway Interface to write your own command line tool that sends the appropriate route request to SimSig. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 15:47 #83030 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Its a nice idea but it would require you to know the ID of every controlled signal on the panel (which SimSig doesnt display unlike the real thing), and every available route and aspect.You quickly get fairly used to the signal numbers if you are working a workstation by keyboard. I've written a Keyboard interface in Python (And I know Pedroathome has written one in C#) that lets you set routes, add reminders, set auto buttons, set replacement switches, interpose into berths (Which is what I use it most for) and a few other bits and pieces. It's more of a gimmick than anything else, and I'm sure Geoff and Clive have better things to spend there time on if it can be developed another way as a third party app. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 16:39 #83034 | |
pedroathome
890 posts |
" said:And unless Karl has done this in a different way to me, I have to use the save file and work out the internal signal ID for each signal I want to control. Can control points with a small headache, as well as other controls. For even a small area with just a handful of signals or points can take a considerable amount of time To add, for interpose get into berths is like starting from scratch again, not matching up in any way to signal numbers James Last edited: 13/06/2016 at 16:41 by pedroathome Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 18:03 #83035 | |
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Jan
890 posts |
" said:Also S123 S456 S789 [SET] to get routes from S123 to S456 and S456 to S789. Something like that was actually quite popular for larger panel signal boxes in Germany, although the more widespread variety uses track, not signal numbers for route setting. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 18:31 #83037 | |
Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:Its a nice idea but it would require you to know the ID of every controlled signal on the panel (which SimSig doesnt display unlike the real thing), and every available route and aspect.I used to work a signal box in central QLD (Australia) called Callemondah, a large coal terminal which, at the time, was controlled by an NX panel (now a PC based system). The yard diagram was too big to replicate on the switch console so pushbuttons were arranged numerically. Trust me, you got to know all the signal numbers after a while!! (I tried attaching a photo but the internet said "no"). Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Last edited: 13/06/2016 at 18:35 by Mattyq Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 18:44 #83038 | |
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Mattyq
259 posts |
" said:" said:Both QLD and NSW had systems like this for their regional CTC panels. The QLD one had a lot of commands, some of which were sm/ssr (sm = station mnemonic, ss = signal number, r = route in the form of 'a', 'b', 'c' etc).Also S123 S456 S789 [SET] to get routes from S123 to S456 and S456 to S789. So, for example clear signal 14 to the leftmost route at Paterson (PN) would have been PN/14a (running signals had separate numbers to shunt signals so to call a shunt would require a different number). Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 13/06/2016 at 21:24 #83048 | |
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Jan
890 posts |
This is how the operating console looks like: The black keyboard belongs to the train describer, whereas the smaller white keyboard is for route setting - you enter the two three digit codes of the start and destination tracks together and press one of the route settings buttons to the left and right of the keyboard together with a confirmation button. The buttons to the left of the keyboard are used for routes towards the left-hand side of the panel, with the buttons on the right correspondingly for routes going in the other direction. The innermost button is for setting shunt routes, while the other three keys per direction allow choosing between different overlaps where available - German signalling (at least of the mainline variety, underground or light rail signalling might be different) doesn't know swingable overlaps, so the correct overlap has to be chosen at route setting time. The upper row of keys leaves the numbers you entered available in case you want to set the route again or store it for later usage, whereas the lower keys clear out the number after route setting. The other buttons with coloured background are for manually moving points, setting alternative ("wiggly"  routes, replacing signals back to danger, etc. Any override controls, like operating the Ersatzsignal (basically telling the driver to pass the signal at danger), clearing axle counters, moving occupied points, etc. cannot be done from this console and have to be operated from the panel itself.These are two views of the panel itself:   You can clearly see the track numbers labelled everywhere. So to set a route from e.g. platform 1 (the lowermost island through platform, track 021/121) to the lower route on the right-hand side (361), you'd enter 121361 and then press the appropriate button on the right-hand of the operating console. The last major generation of German relay interlockings before the advent of SSI/computer-based signalling (Sp Dr S600, the pictures above are from a Sp Dr S60 interlocking) still used a signal panel for display and full (override) control, however the number keyboard operating console was already replaced by a computer keyboard and monitor and route setting uses signal identities (same system as subsequently used for VDU-based electronic signal boxes), which usually means adding a letter prefix to the track number. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: BarryM, Forest Pines |
| Keyboard route setting 14/06/2016 at 11:48 #83057 | |
Andrew G
550 posts |
The Signalsoft manual/wiki provides some additional detail to that which Jan has provided, although some of the keyboard shortcuts just relate to the simulations they provide. http://www.railsignalling.org/signalwiki/index.php/Number_Entry 2nd link is for the more recent VDU based entry system, same caveat applies. http://www.railsignalling.org/signalwiki/index.php/Control_Monitor_Sp_Dr_S_600 Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 14/06/2016 at 16:39 #83061 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2027 posts 
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" said:" said:Same basic idea as Geoff mentions but there are also cases where what appears to be the "A" route for instance isn't because that route no longer exists, but in order to save costs has not been written out of the interlocking. There are quite a lot of these examples on WR panels, and also cases where the order is only logical to the person who designed it.At a real IECC you have the option of using the tracker ball or if you want the keyboard as well for certain operations.FIFY. I know of a couple of signallers on these types of systems who preferred to use the keyboard rather than the trackerball to work the panel, but they are in the minority. Log in to reply |
| Keyboard route setting 15/06/2016 at 06:17 #83072 | |
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GeoffM
6287 posts |
I forgot a couple more route IDs that differ. If there is only one route from a signal then both the class and destination can be dropped - ie R123. If there is only one destination but different classes then the class is kept but the destination dropped - ie R123M and R123W. If there is only one class of route from a signal but different destinations then the class can be dropped - ie R123A and R123B. Some have been known to swap class and destination, ie R123MA, R123WA. York N/S a prime example. Ignoring keyboards for the moment where symbols are usually dropped, route IDs usually contain brackets. But where do the brackets go? Is it R123(AM), R123(A)M, R123A(M) - or R123(M)A? All exist today somewhere in the country. The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from. (To be fair, signalling standards are very well written. But route IDs - until perhaps more recently - were less rigorously defined) SimSig Boss Last edited: 15/06/2016 at 06:17 by GeoffM Log in to reply |