Upcoming Games


Full list
Add a game

Upcoming Events

Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Timetables > Peterborough > Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release

Page 1 of 1

Fletton Flyash Entry Location - Latest Peterborough sim release 11/05/2017 at 07:51 #95029
58050
Avatar
2377 posts
Yesterday to make a change from other timetable projects I'm working on for sim developers I started to write a Peterborough 1985-1986 timetable to chain with the King's Cross 1985 timetable I wrote & released 6 months ago. All went well until I had to timetable 6H50 0055 MX COY Fletton Flyash - Peterborough WestSS which is a service of empty CPA(fly ash prestflo wagons) on the West Burton Power Station circuit(the other being the Ratcliffe Power Station circuit).I couldn't for the life of me see an 'Entry Location' for Fletton Flyash [MANTIS #17365 refers]. I checked the 2003 timetable, but due to the fact that there are no flyash trains running to Fletton Flyash during that time I suspect that this was missed which will be a problem if anyone else decides to write a BR era timetable for the sim in it's current state. Is something that has to be fixed or is there no need for 'Fletton Flyash' to be used as an entry location & just add it in as the 1st location on the return leg from Fletton Flyash? I hope I'm wrong & I've missed something here, otherwise I'll have to abandon this timetable project until such time a sim update is done. Anybody know the answer?
Last edited: 11/05/2017 at 08:00 by 58050
Reason: correct typo

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 11/05/2017 at 09:04 #95030
JamesN
Avatar
1135 posts
Online
Per the simulation manual...


Fletton Flyash
Fletton Flyash is an out-and-back loop. Trains cannot enter and exit the simulation here- they enter the loop on the bottom line, then run round the loop to signal 53. They should be timetabled as follows: Peterborough, Fletton Jn, Fletton Flyash, Peterborough. They may, of course, form a new working at Fletton Flyash, timetabled in the usual way.

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 11/05/2017 at 15:50 #95033
clive
Avatar
1993 posts
58050 in post 95029 said:
All went well until I had to timetable 6H50 0055 MX COY Fletton Flyash - Peterborough WestSS which is a service of empty CPA(fly ash prestflo wagons) on the West Burton Power Station circuit
As James says, see the manual. Full wagons leave the panel, but not the sim, run down to a lake, round the lake, through the discharge mechanism, and then the empty wagons re-enter the panel. In other words, it's an MGR loop, just not track-circuited and with no pointwork on it. (Actually, there's a short cripple siding but I didn't bother to simulate it.)

Where did the loco and full wagons come from? If you don't have an incoming working, something's wrong. Though, given you've got it as 0055, the incoming may have arrived before the start of your timetable. In that case you seed the train at the relevant signal whose number I've forgotten (419?).

Last edited: 11/05/2017 at 15:51 by clive
Reason: Cripple siding

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 11/05/2017 at 17:29 #95040
58050
Avatar
2377 posts
Thanks for your response Clive. I'm well aware of what Fletton Flyash was as the layout. In 1988 I worked in Whitemoor TOPS office & covered the Peterborough desk which dealt with the flyash trains in & out of Little Barford & Fletton. There were 2 circuits that went to Fletton Flyash. There were 2 or 3 trains a day from Ratcliffe power station worked by a single Cl.56 or Cl.58 loco(when the Cl.58s were being built they were used on this circuit for testing, there's quite a few photos of a pair of Cl.58s on the flyash train going to Fletton with a Derby CM&EE Test Car sandwiched between the locos). Before that they used Cl.45s or Cl.47 locos. The 2nd circuit operates between West Burton Power Station & Fletton Flayash or Moniers at Little Barford which wasn't a loop. Each set comprised of 48 CPA(flyash presflo wagons, max speed55mph loaded or empty, so roughly 340m incl loco. That said there were several trips during the day between Peterborough West Yard & Fletton Flyash & or Little Barford. Having never written a timetable for this sim before even when it was paged I wasn't so familiar with this particular location in the sense of how it was timetabled. I'm going to experiement with it shortly. The problem I've got is that the 1st train out of Fletton departs Fletton is 6H50 0055 MX COY Fletton Flyash - Peterborough West Yard & as a result needs to be seeded at the exit signal until 00.55. Usually once a train had departed Fletton Flyash they all went into the Flyash line next to P5 for C&W exam[no where else] then they departed back to Ratcliffe power station & or Toton New Bank. The only flyash trains that didn't tend to use the Flayash road at Peterborough station were the ones that had originated at Little Barford as the C&W exam was done there on site. The incoming working which forms 6H50 arrives at Fletton before midnight. Fletton was originally part of London Brick similar to the sites at Calvert(Bucks), Forders Sdgs(near Stewartby on the Bedford - Bletchley line), te flyash was used for landfill. So once the land at Fletton was filled the trains weren't required anymore. In fact I don't think there are any flyash trains from either Ratcliffe or West Burton Power Station these day or certainly for the past 10 years, unless someone is aware of something I'm not.
Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 11/05/2017 at 18:11 #95043
KymriskaDraken
Avatar
893 posts
I think you should be able to seed your outgoing train at signal 53 with "must wait till dep time" checked. It can wait time there and then run to the Flyash siding in Peterborough Stn for C&W exam and then go off to wherever it eventually ends up.
Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 12/05/2017 at 01:14 #95051
BarryM
Avatar
2093 posts
JamesN in post 95030 said:
Per the simulation manual...


Fletton Flyash
Fletton Flyash is an out-and-back loop. Trains cannot enter and exit the simulation here- they enter the loop on the bottom line, then run round the loop to signal 53. They should be timetabled as follows: Peterborough, Fletton Jn, Fletton Flyash, Peterborough. They may, of course, form a new working at Fletton Flyash, timetabled in the usual way.
Unfortunately there is no Fletton Jn in the Location list. Location Fletton is but "Path not found from Peterborough to Fletton using platform/line/path codes specified" needs updating to validate the route?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 12/05/2017 at 07:05 #95052
clive
Avatar
1993 posts
[quote=BarryM;post=95051Unfortunately there is no Fletton Jn in the Location list. Location Fletton is but "Path not found from Peterborough to Fletton using platform/line/path codes specified" needs updating to validate the route?
[/quote]

My test train for this was timetabled Peterborough Plat 2 Line SL, Fletton Path SL Line SL, Fletton Flyash, Peterborough, and validates fine.

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 12/05/2017 at 15:15 #95055
BarryM
Avatar
2093 posts
clive in post 95052 said:
[quote=BarryM;post=95051Unfortunately there is no Fletton Jn in the Location list. Location Fletton is but "Path not found from Peterborough to Fletton using platform/line/path codes specified" needs updating to validate the route?
My test train for this was timetabled Peterborough Plat 2 Line SL, Fletton Path SL Line SL, Fletton Flyash, Peterborough, and validates fine.[/quote]

I'll go along with that. I was testing via P4 Peterborough. Should it not be available on all routes to Flyash?

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 12/05/2017 at 15:40 #95057
MarkC
Avatar
898 posts
BarryM in post 95055 said:
clive in post 95052 said:
BarryM in post 95051 said:
Unfortunately there is no Fletton Jn in the Location list. Location Fletton is but "Path not found from Peterborough to Fletton using platform/line/path codes specified" needs updating to validate the route?
My test train for this was timetabled Peterborough Plat 2 Line SL, Fletton Path SL Line SL, Fletton Flyash, Peterborough, and validates fine.
I'll go along with that. I was testing via P4 Peterborough. Should it not be available on all routes to Flyash?

Barry
It is possible to create a timetable with the train going to the Flyash loop via P4 and validating, from Peterborough P4 next location is Peterborough S DS, followed by Fletton Flyash. This routing also works for trains being routed though P5


Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
Last edited: 12/05/2017 at 19:58 by MarkC
Reason: Edited

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: BarryM
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 13/05/2017 at 19:24 #95072
onlydjw
Avatar
456 posts
58050 in post 95040 said:
In fact I don't think there are any flyash trains from either Ratcliffe or West Burton Power Station these day or certainly for the past 10 years, unless someone is aware of something I'm not.
There are regular flyash trains from West Burton and Drax. The Drax trains use those grey tank-tainer looking things on FCAs, and run to Appleford Tip. The West Burton flow uses PCA wagons, and this runs to Theale via Earles Sidings. THe grey tank tainers used on the Drax flow are the very same ones which were bright orange and used on the West Burton to Colnbrook flow a few years ago when the building work was ongoing at Heathrow.

I think there have been recent flyash trains from Aberthaw too in recent years, though that's outside of my area of knowledge.

Flyash is not to be confused with the ash trains running between Cottam (before that West Burton) and East Peckham - the open box wagons carry ash - that dusty horrible stuff you get out of the bottom of a coal fire - just on a bigger scale! That isn't flyash - the commodities are different.

God bless, Daniel Wilson
Last edited: 13/05/2017 at 22:22 by onlydjw
Reason: Change

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 23/05/2017 at 14:06 #95328
miker15
Avatar
42 posts
I worked for Monier Resources at Little Barford from 1985 to 1988. I was QC Manager for the output from the plant so did not get involved with the trains at all. I do know that the train had to be split at Little Barford to unload. There may only have been 2 sidings with a headshunt south of the connection to the down slow with a semi-circular siding, with a noticeable gradient, north of the connection, which could only take 24 wagons for unloading. The story I got was that when they backed the whole of the first train into the unloading line it overshot and the last wagon derailed. It was eventually cut up to remove it. After that they split the train before backing into the siding. I think this involved leaving half of the train out on the down slow to get the loco to the "middle" of the train. When I started we were taking less than one train a week but when I left we were up to 2 or even 3 trains a week.
Sorry but I can't help with any more information about this working.

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 23/05/2017 at 17:03 #95330
clive
Avatar
1993 posts
miker15 in post 95328 said:
I worked for Monier Resources at Little Barford from 1985 to 1988. I was QC Manager for the output from the plant so did not get involved with the trains at all. I do know that the train had to be split at Little Barford to unload. There may only have been 2 sidings with a headshunt south of the connection to the down slow with a semi-circular siding, with a noticeable gradient, north of the connection,
Looking at Google Earth historical images, what it appears was there was as follows. There were four straight and parallel sidings south of the connection and a quarter-circle one north of the connection, leading to a corner of the crane factory. Heading south coming off the Down Slow, you had:
* facing points left to the eastern siding or straight to ...
* trailing points for the quarter-circle siding from the right
* facing points straight to the second siding or right to ...
* facing points straight to the third siding or right to the western siding.

From looking at old maps, it appears that there was once a complete oval around the present site and an intersecting line (crossing the loop but with a connection) that went across Barford Road to the older site of the power station.

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 23/05/2017 at 23:43 #95334
BarryM
Avatar
2093 posts
Vince,

6E30 timetable need adjusting. The final location needs removing other wise the driver complains wrong route.

Barry

Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 24/05/2017 at 09:45 #95343
VInce
Avatar
420 posts
No Barry there is a sim error - see the thread here...

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/43636

The developer has the matter in hand.

Also this is how incoming and ougoing Fletton trains have to be timetabled, believe me there is no other way....see attachments

It need a thru line stop in Fletton Flyash for 1hr 30min with a dwell of 1hr 30 mins - its works believe me.




Post has attachments. Log in to view them.
Last edited: 24/05/2017 at 09:48 by VInce
Reason: None given

Log in to reply
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 24/05/2017 at 10:05 #95344
Lyn-Greenwood
Avatar
177 posts
Online
VInce in post 95343 said:
No Barry there is a sim error - see the thread here...

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/43636

The developer has the matter in hand.

Also this is how incoming and ougoing Fletton trains have to be timetabled, believe me there is no other way....see attachments

It need a thru line stop in Fletton Flyash for 1hr 30min with a dwell of 1hr 30 mins - its works believe me.



There is a workaround until the sim problem gets fixed. Here's the details from an earlier post of mine (different thread):

"To overcome the Peterborough Flyash Line "Wrong Route called" sim problem, edit the timetable of all inbound Flyash trains to create a new TD when they are at the Fletton Flyash Loop exit signal. This is what I did and it works."

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: BarryM
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 24/05/2017 at 12:27 #95348
clive
Avatar
1993 posts
VInce in post 95343 said:
No Barry there is a sim error - see the thread here...

https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/43636

The developer has the matter in hand.
I sent Geoff a new build of Peterborough that fixes these issues this morning, so hopefully it will appear in the next day or two.

VInce in post 95343 said:

It need a thru line stop in Fletton Flyash for 1hr 30min with a dwell of 1hr 30 mins
It shouldn't need a through line stop; that's only used where there are platforms and through lines, to prevent the sim objecting that you haven't put the train into a platform. That isn't the case for Fletton Flyash.

Log in to reply
The following user said thank you: VInce
Fletton Flyash Entry Location - |Latest Peterborough sim release 24/05/2017 at 14:59 #95349
miker15
Avatar
42 posts
That seems about right, though I suspect not all 4 sidings were usable when I was there. The complete circle makes sense as the original Little Barford Power Station was coal fired, presumably supplied by MGR trains. I remember the old chimney and cooling towers being demolished in 1987
Log in to reply