Page 1 of 2
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 12:45 #101248 | |
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
I'm quite interested in trying out an idea I've had for a while now about hosting a 'pro session' on SimSig. Sometimes when I host I feel a bit let down by a very small minority who don't read timetables and don't adhere to the signalling basics. An idea I've had in my head is to try and make a session more of a real life simulation rather than a 'game'. (Which I'm sure SimSig is all about anyway!) So I plan on running a session (hopefully 27/08/17) where by each signaller will be accounted for all delays on their panel. The session won't have delays enabled but will have 'real-life' delays added in. The session is open to everyone but all I ask is you come into the session knowing that it is a 'pro session' and that you will aim to keep to the timetables or be faced with a delay explanation! Have your say on the idea now and I'll post how I intend to monitor and attribute delays. My early thoughts are to have a table almost like a league of signallers with delay minutes vs time spent on the sim leading to a score. As delays happen in the session that are generated these obviously won't be added to a signallers tally. Thoughts please.... Log in to reply The following users said thank you: HST125Scorton, Hap, Banners88, marquel41494, tjfrancis, lionel87 |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 13:06 #101250 | |
|
JamesN
1575 posts 
|
An interesting - if potentially divisive - idea. Signalmen in reality have the option to defer a regulation decision up the chain to the Train Running Controller, will this, and the consequent immunity to attributed delay be offered to players? SimSig doesn't record how late a train was at each timing point (perhaps it should?) - only present late running. How can players be sure that they won't unfairly be attributed delay on their patch because the delay attributor has no clear record of where the delay occurred. A lot of what many would consider to be common-sense regulation goes out the window when there is disruption. How do you intend to balance signalling for pure performance (lowest minutes-per-incident) vs signalling for least disruption to passengers/etc. Much of that is codified in commercially sensitive regulation agreements between TOCs and NR. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 13:53 #101251 | |
HST125Scorton
1135 posts
|
A very grand idea you have put together there. I will join in on this.. But I do have my own verdict to regulation when it comes to freight and passengers. So example if early running freights are early I like to keep them rolling as much as possible until I recess them for passing servcies also if any Pax are delayed on route e.g. Station or a failure and there is time to pass a freight ahead and into the next parking lot (Recess Loop). Passengers are my main focus while freight plod along.. Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Banners88 |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 14:44 #101252 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
JamesN in post 101250 said:An interesting - if potentially divisive - idea.Thanks for raising those points... 1. Devisive this will not be! (And of course is not intended to be) If a member doesn't like the idea they hopefully won't join and again it's a trial, it may fall flat on its face in the first 20 minutes and therefor would be downgraded to a normal session! 2. I would act as a train controller and TOC control, I wouldn't take decisions away from signallers in game as that defeats the object of SimSig sessions. However if a signaller said to me they were going to allow a train to run in attempt to make up lost time for example and delayed another in the process this would grant immunity to them. (As would any delay that was passed by me and deemed not signallers fault) 3. I would need some co-operation and honesty from signallers, if I see a train that is delayed (train delays of above 1 minute will pop up in the message box at each timing point if I remember rightly) I will question that delay with the panel operator ASAP so they can provide an explanation. If they genuinely aren't able to offer a reason it will do down as driver error. 4. Your last point is a good one and is difficult to answer as I would have to trial a few methods in this session to see how easy it is to calculate the knock on affects from delays. I imagine I would eliminate trains that were delayed by an earlier incident and not attribute further delays wrongly to a signaller. I guess the main delays recorded would be the blatant delays caused by for by example a freight running early or incorrect platform use. Other aspects such as ACOAs and wrong routes would heavily impact on a signallers 'score' (unless of course agreed with the driver during disruption) Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 14:51 #101253 | |
Hap
985 posts
|
A great idea. As I also feel frustrated when hosting and things start to stop, or being signaled one section at a time. I think when people want to join a game they should have a good general understanding as to where key locations are for train entry and exits. One thing I notice is that late running freights are let loose in front of a pax that's only a few sections behind or is guaranteed to catch up with the freight thus delaying the pax. I do take into account that I am of passenger thinking mind as that's my line of work and fully aware that NR and other TOC/FOCs have got TTs to keep to. As I always state in my briefs, communication between panels is important when dealing with so much through traffic. In relation to points (Scoring) It would be good if there was a way that when a signaller takes over a panel, then they are scored on their performance and as such has as running record. Lower points are gained when operating with ARS on etc. points deducted for bad regulation/Signals being pull in front of trains. Points shouldn't be lost for platform alterations as this is should only be happening when there is a failure of some type. When I host Motherwell, I do alter timetables to get back onto an on time railway (Scotrail moto). That's just something we do as a company. points shouldn't be lost for that, as its the trains overall arrival time at its destination that accounts for PPM. Anyway, good idea, and I hope I could be regarded as somewhat competent enough to join! lol. Craig How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Last edited: 26/08/2017 at 14:52 by Hap Reason: Spelling OCD Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 15:01 #101254 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
HST125Scorton in post 101251 said:A very grand idea you have put together there. I will join in on this..I don't want to impact in any way on how people choose to signal their panels, however if you chose to run a freight early and it impacted on another service you would be attributed that delay and any further delays to other services as a result, whether it happens on your panel or not. You MUST request permission off the next panel to run anything early and abide by that signallers decision. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Ar88, HST125Scorton |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 15:12 #101255 | |
|
HST125Scorton
1135 posts
|
chrisdmadd in post 101254 said:HST125Scorton in post 101251 said: I don't want to impact in any way on how people choose to signal their panels, however if you chose to run a freight early and it impacted on another service you would be attributed that delay and any further delays to other services as a result, whether it happens on your panel or not. You MUST request permission off the next panel to run anything early and abide by that signallers decision.I agree with what you say totally freight can be a pain at times when trying to clear them out the way, we must signal differently in Preston land... That been said I'm happy to join and follow all instructions you set and hoping to do a grand job. May I ask which sim your planning to host? Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 15:14 #101256 | |
Andrew G
548 posts |
To me 'Wrong Routes' and 'Adverse Change of Aspect' are the most frustrating issues on the rare occasion I host a public session. Outside of these issues my other frustration is users who don't make any use of Auto buttons and then have trains standing at Red signals. It will be interesting to see how you rate the participants in your proposed session as some users seem to have difficulty in assessing their own level of competence and choose to gravitate to the most complex and/or high traffic density panels despite having little experience of the particular simulation. I look forward to hearing how you get on. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 15:35 #101257 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
Andrew G in post 101256 said:To me 'Wrong Routes' and 'Adverse Change of Aspect' are the most frustrating issues on the rare occasion I host a public session. Yeah its why I've decided to try out the idea, I've been more frustrated recently with the standards in the sim! Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 16:06 #101258 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
Not sure what sim yet it needs to be relatively easy to manage from my point of view. It also needs to be fun while running with limited delays. One such sim that's quite tight is Leeds East West. Could be tempted by that. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 16:12 #101259 | |
|
HST125Scorton
1135 posts
|
Ah fair enough if you could add York North/South into that?, I will be able to join as I don't have any of the Leeds Sims. Manageability wise could Rugby SCC, Motherwell with limited delays be fun also too (Suggestion that) Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 17:00 #101260 | |
DaveHarries
1267 posts
|
I might join in this session as well. I quite like playing the Lees and York sims. I am busy tomorrow daytime so any time after about 9pm would be best for something like this. Dave Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 17:35 #101261 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
HST125Scorton in post 101255 said:chrisdmadd in post 101254 said:The actual Preston panel it depends who's on duty on the day. Sometimes they'll keep freight running, sometimes it'll go inside and stay till booked time. Though I do appreciate these days it isn't always down to the panel operator.HST125Scorton in post 101251 said: I don't want to impact in any way on how people choose to signal their panels, however if you chose to run a freight early and it impacted on another service you would be attributed that delay and any further delays to other services as a result, whether it happens on your panel or not. You MUST request permission off the next panel to run anything early and abide by that signallers decision.I agree with what you say totally freight can be a pain at times when trying to clear them out the way, we must signal differently in Preston land... That been said I'm happy to join and follow all instructions you set and hoping to do a grand job. May I ask which sim your planning to host? "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: HST125Scorton |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 17:49 #101262 | |
|
HST125Scorton
1135 posts
|
Just to mention couple months ago back in April... Preston Station (C) Panel.. 1B13 0811 Blackpool North to York Formed of 3Car 158 had just arrived into Platform 2 and was awaiting TRTS 0837 Dep, as the same time 4M34 0428 Coatbridge F.L.T. to Daventry Int Rft Recep Fl formed of a Class 70 and 15 IKA Intermodal sets was creeping into Platform 4, usually this waits for 1B13 to clear. 4M34 got the road on to the Up Slow 2mins before 1B13 was due out 0837 for the same path Up Slow until Farington Curve Jn.. Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Last edited: 26/08/2017 at 18:47 by HST125Scorton Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 19:06 #101264 | |
|
AndyG
1834 posts
|
chrisdmadd in post 101258 said:One such sim that's quite tight is Leeds East West. Could be tempted by that.Carlisle/Motherwell, and York/Tyneside all need careful regulating, with lots of options to do so. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 19:35 #101265 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi, I think this is a great idea. I'd very much like to join this but I would consider myself only really proficient on Derby, Peterborough, Exeter and Westbury i.e the ones that one person can reliably operate. Additionally I really don't know how to join a session and the etiquette necessary. Is there anywhere that explains this - perhaps in the Wiki? Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 27/08/2017 at 08:31 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 20:23 #101266 | |
GeoffM
6282 posts
|
chrisdmadd in post 101248 said:My early thoughts are to have a table almost like a league of signallers with delay minutes vs time spent on the sim leading to a score.While not calculated on delays, there was discussion some time ago about rating both players and hosts. At the time the general consensus seemed to be that it would be a divisive thing, people ganging up on others, that kind of thing. I think many people form an idea of who is a good player/host and who is not in their head anyway. When I saw the title of this thread I assumed it would be about simply being able to pay attention and signal trains, rather than about regulation decisions, but I see the point. I have been in (or listened to) numerous sessions where it seems a player has simply disappeared without telling anybody, or has been distracted by something else on their PC. In other words, not giving the simulation their full attention and letting the other players down in the process. One thing I might suggest is that all players in a session have the same means of communication. With some using TeamSpeak and others not, it can be quite difficult to get messages across to everybody that needs to hear. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: HST125Scorton |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 26/08/2017 at 21:15 #101268 | |
Steamer
3922 posts |
VInce in post 101265 said:Seek, and ye shall find: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ssrun:multiplayer "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 00:21 #101269 | |
Ar88
310 posts |
chrisdmadd in post 101254 said:HST125Scorton in post 101251 said:I FULLY support this notion.A very grand idea you have put together there. I will join in on this..I don't want to impact in any way on how people choose to signal their panels, however if you chose to run a freight early and it impacted on another service you would be attributed that delay and any further delays to other services as a result, whether it happens on your panel or not. You MUST request permission off the next panel to run anything early and abide by that signallers decision. Whenever I'm hosting/on a panel, I always ask the adjacent panel regarding letting an early run through.....& do ask for the same to be extended to me. I'll be interested in joining, depending on the sim! The Welsh contingent. Aron, or Ar to mates. Also known as 88E or ThatManCalledAr. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 12:55 #101271 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
Please make your mind up here on tonights session. The most popular will win.... http://www.strawpoll.me/13799013 Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 14:40 #101277 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
An early version of how each signaller would be graded. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UMDcrnb0Pnrh4RVQ0Zr_gZwgmDnaZg8RpSXwea7KxCc/edit?usp=sharing Let me know what you think of the weighting of the errors. 2 points per minute lost 2 points per incorrect platform (unjustified) 6 points per wrong route 10 points per ACOA Last edited: 27/08/2017 at 14:43 by chrisdmadd Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Carl_ |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 15:13 #101278 | |
|
BANNED
12 posts |
I would like to take part but I cant take part if I dont have the sims that the pro session is been hosted on
If no-one likes me, why should I like them? Just like a Arsenal v Tottenham game in the Premier League. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 17:18 #101279 | |
Carl_
14 posts |
What I like about TRUST is sometimes sitting down and reading the silly reasons for delays, ye it sounds rude but, in a way, it helps you to improve yourself, learning from other people's mistakes. One crucial thing with this however, is to not badger or humiliate people with bad scores (this could lead to people not wanting to join Simsig hosts any longer), the main problem when the new delays attribution rules came into play was the embarrassment and bullying of the signallers when in the grand scheme of things just came to work to have an enjoyable day and not to be shouted at about how they did their job (or in Simsig terms, to learn and enjoy a simulation). The main NR principle kicks in, Everybody Home Safe Everyday. It doesn't matter if we cause delays, as long as the job is done safely and we get passengers to their destination (reasonably on time). However, I do like this Idea, it will hopefully add a sense of the "Real-thing" into it, delays constantly breathing down ya neck. Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 17:55 #101281 | |
|
MarkC
1089 posts |
I think the idea is good in principle, but the idea of attributing blame points to SimSignallers however well meaning may serve to embarrass people. When I play a sim on my own or as part of a session (unless otherwise informed by host) I use the simple principle of right time trains having prioity over late running. The only exception I have to this. In rare circumstances where an on time is wanting to depart a station and a non stopper is running and is extreamly close I would allow the late to go first, but it has be able to be clear very quickly, to minimise a deley to the right time train. Last edited: 27/08/2017 at 17:55 by MarkC Reason: edit Log in to reply |
| ***Pro Session*** Sunday 27/08/17 27/08/2017 at 18:27 #101283 | |
|
chrisdmadd
226 posts |
I hope it doesn't embarrass anyone but I guess if someone feels like they could be embarrassed by not performing to their best then maybe it's not for you! This is designed to test your skill and try and encourage people to really 'think before they click' so to speak. It's not going to take over the normal SimSig sessions that happen almost daily. This will be for those, like I say, that really want to prove that they are up to the challenge of being monitored for many things including delays. Log in to reply |