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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 14:01 #101273 | |
58050
2650 posts |
I received this message via facebook in respect of the last Cl.319 Thameslink workings yesterdaywhich may interest some people. I was a secondman back in 1988 at Bedford when the first one came for driver training as a replacement from the Cl.317 units:- 27 August at 02:32 319 diagrams for today (27/08/17) 319 435 North (Bedford) end 319 217 South (Brighton) end 5G29 – 09+32 Bedford C/S to Bedford 2W29 – 09:50 Bedford to Three Bridges 2W36 – 12:24 Three Bridges to Bedford 1W43 – 15:06 Bedford to Brighton 1W46 – 18:14 Brighton to Bedford – Last Thameslink 319 working 5G47 – 21+09 Bedford to Bedford C/S Diagram 2 319 440 North (Bedford) end 319 443 South (Brighton) end 5G19 – 07+05 Bedford C/S to Bedford 2K19 – 07:16 Bedford to St Albans 2G08 – 08:10 St Albans to Bedford 1W19 – 09:06 Bedford to Brighton 1W22 – 12:14 Brighton to Bedford 2W51 – 15:20 Bedford to Three Bridges 2W58 – 17:55 Three Bridges to Bedford 5G58 – 20+14 Bedford to Bedford C/S Whether I see anymore Cl.319 units at Bedford remains to be seen as with the usual thing on the railway, whats published on paper dioesn't always strickly run to plan. Anyone doing a timetable for todays railway will at least know when these units were supposed to have finished working Thameslink services. I wonder how many railway enthusiasts actually rode on the final workings? Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 14:04 #101274 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Oops typical missed another one:- EXTRA 319 DIAGRAM Due to there being an 8 car 700 short at Bedford, there will now be a 3rd 319 diagram: Diagram 3 319 432 North (Bedford) end 319 426 South (Brighton) end I suppose I should say thank you & goodnight to these units for the work they have done over the past 28-29 years. 5G37 – 13+24 Bedford C/S to Bedford 1W37 – 13:36 Bedford to Brighton 1W40 – 16:44 Brighton to Bedford 5U02 – 19+40 Bedford to Bedford Cauldwell Last edited: 27/08/2017 at 14:06 by 58050 Reason: Added text Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 14:10 #101275 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
I think this is the last one:- Good morning. Just to inform any 319 fans I can confirm that GTR fleet have allocated the following units as follows: Diagram 1 319 435 North (Bedford) end 319 217 South (Brighton) end 5G29 – 09+32 Bedford C/S to Bedford 2W29 – 09:50 Bedford to Three Bridges 2W36 – 12:24 Three Bridges to Bedford 1W43 – 15:06 Bedford to Brighton 1W46 – 18:14 Brighton to Bedford – Last Thameslink 319 working 5G47 – 21+09 Bedford to Bedford C/S Diagram 2 319 440 North (Bedford) end 319 443 South (Brighton) end 5G19 – 07+05 Bedford C/S to Bedford 2K19 – 07:16 Bedford to St Albans 2G08 – 08:10 St Albans to Bedford 1W19 – 09:06 Bedford to Brighton 1W22 – 12:14 Brighton to Bedford 2W51 – 15:20 Bedford to Three Bridges 2W58 – 17:55 Three Bridges to Bedford 5G58 – 20+14 Bedford to Bedford C/S Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 14:12 #101276 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Incidentally does anyone on here know where these units will be transferred to?. Are they heading to Merseyside where some of there stablemates have go to or are they likely to head fort pastures new?
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 17:44 #101280 | |
Splodge
701 posts |
Some are going to Northern (a few via Loughborough to be converted to Flex units); the remainder are entering storage at Long Marston
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 17:55 #101282 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
OK must admit I'm a bit surprised that some of them are going for staorage as I wouldn't have thought they were life expired. Flex units are they to be converted to have diesel engines fitted to them so they can work on either diesel, AC eletric & DC electric?
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 20:14 #101284 | |
Steamer
3920 posts |
58050 in post 101282 said:Flex units are they to be converted to have diesel engines fitted to them so they can work on either diesel, AC eletric & DC electric?Yes. Yet another damning indictment on the calibre of senior people at the DfT and Network Rail that such an idea had to be thought of, let alone created. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 27/08/2017 at 21:27 #101286 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
Well yes I'd agree with your thoughts too Steamer. I personally think that all these so called hybrid unjts will end up being another waste of money & a failure. Some of the units will end up being restricted to either diesel only or electric only. If this system had been a good idea BR would have done some testing with this type of unit. Maybe they did & it was deemed unfeasable as it never came light back then.. I remember with the Cl.73s electro-diesels. As they spent most of there time running on the DC traction current the diesel engine when required to start very often failed with flat batteries or something similar. Just like the cancellation of the overhead electrification from Bedford to Sheffield now being knocked on the head & only going as far as Corby. I've yet to see any work start on the electrification north of Bedford as I live opposite the station on the DF side. The majority of the people who knew how to run a railway left the industry when BR was privatised & they never returned.As Mr. K. Batber once stated on this forum we knew how to run a railway back in BR days, but our hands were somewhat tied by the constraints put on by minmisters who didn;'t know the first thing about running a railway. The farce goes on.....................
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 09:12 #101298 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
Some of them are/have been allocated to work lime st to manchester et al with northern. Unfortunately now that electrification of the MML bedford to leeds is cancelled theres no use for them around sheffield. Hopefully at some point theyll come out of storage if more knitting goes up somewhere
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 17:51 #101304 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
That said Joe I think they could be used once the eletrification is done to Corby & use them on a new set of services through the tunnel onto the former Southern Region from Corby/Kettering as well as using them on services through to St. Pancras. Then the Meridian sets currently used on the Corby services could be re-allocated to the Sheffield/Derby/Nottingham to St. Pancras services & strengthen those. That would be alot more reasible than wqasting money building new or converting other trains to make 'hybrid' units.
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 20:00 #101307 | |
JamesN
1574 posts 
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58050 in post 101304 said:That said Joe I think they could be used once the eletrification is done to Corby & use them on a new set of services through the tunnel onto the former Southern Region from Corby/Kettering as well as using them on services through to St. Pancras. Then the Meridian sets currently used on the Corby services could be re-allocated to the Sheffield/Derby/Nottingham to St. Pancras services & strengthen those. That would be alot more reasible than wqasting money building new or converting other trains to make 'hybrid' units.From next year only trains fitted with fancy new in-cab signalling will be permitted between Kentish Town and Blackfriars. The wires to Corby won't be up by then unfortunately. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 20:26 #101309 | |
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Steamer
3920 posts |
JamesN in post 101307 said:58050 in post 101304 said:Only Class 700s so fitted, if I understand rightly?That said Joe I think they could be used once the eletrification is done to Corby & use them on a new set of services through the tunnel onto the former Southern Region from Corby/Kettering as well as using them on services through to St. Pancras. Then the Meridian sets currently used on the Corby services could be re-allocated to the Sheffield/Derby/Nottingham to St. Pancras services & strengthen those. That would be alot more reasible than wqasting money building new or converting other trains to make 'hybrid' units.From next year only trains fitted with fancy new in-cab signalling will be permitted between Kentish Town and Blackfriars. The wires to Corby won't be up by then unfortunately. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 20:26 #101310 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
Some of the Flex units are earmarked for Windermere duties as that electrification scheme is dead
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 20:29 #101311 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
OK James based on that what you've stated I can't see any TOC spending the money getting the Cl.319s fitted with this new equiptment & yes I've seen nothing yet from any electrification work going on north of Bedford apart from a road closure on Ford End Road bridge reduced to single line traffic in both directions a couple of weeks ago whilst some civil engibeering compnay was contracted by Network Rail to carry out some tests on the bridge. Those Cl.319s that are going for starage at Long Msrston could have been taken into East Mids Trains fleet to cover Coorby - St. Pancras = Corby services & out sourced the maintenance at Bedford Cauldwell Walk depot, but no doubt would involve putting the OLE in at Finedon Yard, Wellingborough where the units could be stabled or at Cricklewood CS. If EM trains run ECS from Derby - St. Pancras can't see any probs running ECS from Cricklewood CS to Kettering/Corby & would yake just over an hour to cover the journey running pretty much at 100mph all the way apart from the PSR at Wellingborough station. There's been a right load of complaints in the local papers in Bedford recently over the cancelation of the MML eletrification scheme Berdford to Leeds.
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 21:45 #101313 | |
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JamesN
1574 posts
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Steamer in post 101309 said:JamesN in post 101307 said:Some other new-build types are now being fitted with the gear - Crossrail units, the Hitachi 800/801s. It's also very similar to the gear fitted to the 158s in use on the Cambrian.58050 in post 101304 said:Only Class 700s so fitted, if I understand rightly?That said Joe I think they could be used once the eletrification is done to Corby & use them on a new set of services through the tunnel onto the former Southern Region from Corby/Kettering as well as using them on services through to St. Pancras. Then the Meridian sets currently used on the Corby services could be re-allocated to the Sheffield/Derby/Nottingham to St. Pancras services & strengthen those. That would be alot more reasible than wqasting money building new or converting other trains to make 'hybrid' units.From next year only trains fitted with fancy new in-cab signalling will be permitted between Kentish Town and Blackfriars. The wires to Corby won't be up by then unfortunately. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 22:51 #101320 | |
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clive
2737 posts |
58050 in post 101286 said:Just like the cancellation of the overhead electrification from Bedford to Sheffield now being knocked on the head & only going as far as Corby.Something in the current Modern Railways points out that the MML is going to be far less important once HS2 is built, since much of the traffic it carries will be going that way instead. So it's perhaps not the most important bit to get electrified yet. Doing the Great Western all the way to Bristol or, preferably, Exeter (both ways) would be a better idea. Or, in my area, Ely to Peterborough and Norwich. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 28/08/2017 at 22:59 #101321 | |
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58050
2650 posts |
I suspect whatever happens it will be based on which MPs bang the drum the loudest. Personally the sooner HS2 is scrapped the better, it'll be the biggest white elephant in UK railway history. Total waste of money. If this country was as big as France or Germany then they'd have a point in building it, but it isn't. With the money it cost to build HS2 they could probably eletrified the whole of the lines in the country that aren't yet eletrified. Fortunately I suspect that when the Tories get kicked out of government they'll be a different set of priorities for the railways & hs2 WILL BE SHELVED.
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| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 29/08/2017 at 00:05 #101323 | |
postal
5190 posts |
58050 in post 101321 said:Fortunately I suspect that when the Tories get kicked out of government they'll be a different set of priorities for the railways & hs2 WILL BE SHELVED.If we do have to try and turn something like a signalling forum into a party political broadcast, it might be as well to remember which party brought the original proposal for HS2 forward (clue - it was brought forward before 2010 when the coalition government was formed). “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 29/08/2017 at 05:40 #101324 | |
northroad
870 posts |
postal in post 101323 said:58050 in post 101321 said:Fortunately I suspect that when the Tories get kicked out of government they'll be a different set of priorities for the railways & hs2 WILL BE SHELVED.If we do have to try and turn something like a signalling forum into a party political broadcast, it might be as well to remember which party brought the original proposal for HS2 forward (clue - it was brought forward before 2010 when the coalition government was formed). Personally I like and hope that Crossrail 2 gets the go ahead. Living in New Southgate, the proposed Northern end of the line just think of the benefits it will bring to my house price for those wanting too commute to South London. Lovely jubillie....... Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 29/08/2017 at 11:43 #101333 | |
Peter Bennet
5357 posts |
postal in post 101323 said:58050 in post 101321 said:Just for the record, the support at 3rd reading was 399 to 42 on 23 March 2016 with both Front Benches supporting.Fortunately I suspect that when the Tories get kicked out of government they'll be a different set of priorities for the railways & hs2 WILL BE SHELVED.If we do have to try and turn something like a signalling forum into a party political broadcast, it might be as well to remember which party brought the original proposal for HS2 forward (clue - it was brought forward before 2010 when the coalition government was formed). https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm160323/debtext/160323-0004.htm Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 31/08/2017 at 07:04 #101385 | |
Giantray
330 posts |
Steamer in post 101309 said:Correct, the "Doodle Bugs" (sent from Germany, cut-out in London)Class 700 units are the only units that will be ETCS fitted. However, convential signalling is being retained through-out the Core (Kentish Town to Blackfriars). In theory any train passed for the route could travel through on convential signalling. This however would mean that train paths through the Core would be reduced. Also any passenger train that does go through the Core post december 2018 must have disabled coaches in the middle of the unit to be aligned with TFL's disabled ramps that will be installed on platforms. Interestingly, when ETCS is up and running, block sections will be marked by convential signals and block marker posts, the conevntial signals showing normal aspects. It will be possible for a signal to show a yellow with the conevential block section ahead occupied by a train, but that train is beyond a blockmarker post. If the system detects a train in rear not on ETCS, then that yellow signal would be at Danger. Class 700s will be operated through the Core on ETCS with ATO (Automatic Train Operation) only. So the train Driver will only operate the doors in the Core. Should ATO fail, trains will be signalled through on convential Signals. GTR are only training their Drivers in ATO operation, not ETCS in-cab signalling. Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 02/09/2017 at 15:32 #101448 | |
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clive
2737 posts |
Giantray in post 101385 said:Hmm, I don't like that. LU uses a white aspect to mean "clear to next block marker but not to next signal". Hong Kong's East Rail Line uses a blue aspect to mean "obey ATO/ATP", rather than showing the actual aspect. Mind, on ERL it's possible for a train under ATO to pass a signal that would have been showing red if it wasn't blue. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 02/09/2017 at 16:31 #101449 | |
GeoffM
6281 posts |
clive in post 101448 said:Giantray in post 101385 said:Not unusual though. I know a few systems that have tiny blocks for dully fitted and working ATO/ETCS (as applicable) OR require the entire block (signal to signal) to be clear for an unfitted or non-working train. I don't recall a difference in aspects though.Hmm, I don't like that. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 03/09/2017 at 08:58 #101478 | |
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Giantray
330 posts |
GeoffM in post 101449 said:.... I don't recall a difference in aspects though.I believe there was a requirement from the TOC that trains didn't pass a red danger signal under ETCS, as it would if the section to the block marker was clear but the section to the next signal wasn't. Retired Professional Railwayman (1981-2023); Pway & S&T (1981-88); Former Signalman/Signaller/ Signalling Trainer (1989-2023) [AB, TCB, Mechanical, NX, WestCad, Hitachi SARS]; Railway Historian (esp.SER, LCDR); Member of The Permanent Way Institution.. Log in to reply |
| End of the Cl.319 workings from Bedford On Thameslink Services 27-08-2017 03/09/2017 at 23:27 #101518 | |
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Jan
889 posts |
clive in post 101448 said:LU uses a white aspect to mean "clear to next block marker but not to next signal". Hong Kong's East Rail Line uses a blue aspect to mean "obey ATO/ATP", rather than showing the actual aspect. Mind, on ERL it's possible for a train under ATO to pass a signal that would have been showing red if it wasn't blue. In German main line signalling, the signal is usually blanked out completely if it would be in conflict with whatever the cab signalling is indicating. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |