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| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 18:41 #104485 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, Just for my own use and fun, I'm in the process of modifying and refreshing Ed Jeffrey's 1981 Exeter timetable. I recollect reading somewhere that Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 were not in regular use in this era but can't for the life of me find this reference again. Ed does not use P3 and P4 for passenger trains in his timetable so I suspect that my recollection is correct. However it is very difficult to accommodate some of the loco-hauled Taunton terminating trains without using those platforms as the complex shunts required to run round and shunt to other platforms always clash with something else. So the question is - am I correct in my recollection and does 'not in regular use' mean blocked to passengers or just used occasionally? Anyone any ideas? Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 25/12/2017 at 18:47 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 18:54 #104486 | |
Rupert
5 posts |
Correct, the platforms were taken out of use in the late 1960s/early 70s (long before the 1980s resignalling) and were not reinstated until around 2000.
Last edited: 26/12/2017 at 01:03 by Rupert Reason: Can't find exact date. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 18:58 #104489 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Rupert in post 104486 said:Correct, the platforms were taken out of use in the late 1960s (long before the 1980s resignalling) and were not reinstated until around 2000.Thank you Rupert - its going to be an interesting challenge then! Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 19:03 #104490 | |
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Rupert
5 posts |
The layout was however simplified in the mid 1980s resignalling so even though the centre platforms were not in use in 1981, the shunting may well have been considerably easier.
Last edited: 25/12/2017 at 19:04 by Rupert Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 21:34 #104496 | |
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AndyG
1834 posts |
Maybe train arrives P2/5, shunt/propel train into P3/4 and do the RR there, then shunt to P2/5 as available prior to dep time. May not be as real life, but will add fun to the working. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 22:55 #104503 | |
GeoffM
6280 posts |
The tracks were in use, just not the platforms for passenger use.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 25/12/2017 at 23:33 #104505 | |
pedroathome
887 posts |
I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong here, and am vaguely quoting something which I've previously read somewhere online, however, access to the middle as I take it was never fully removed, but more borded up, allowing use of the platform when it was absolutely needed. Additionally, to quote what would appear to be a source for this, and yes, I know its a wikipiedia link, "Until 1970 the four tracks to the east of Taunton were not used as normal main and relief lines, but with the inner main lines for trains to London and the outer lines for trains to Bristol, to align with the way the tracks diverged at Cogload Junction, some miles to the east of the station. In 1970 under the Western Region of British Rail the central island platform was closed off and all trains stopping at Taunton used the outer platforms, except in an emergency when the central platform was pressed into use. London trains stopping at Taunton (which was most of them) now crossed over to the main lines at the London end of the station. The second pair of lines from Cogload were removed in 1986.[9]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taunton_railway_station Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 02:03 #104509 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
pedroathome in post 104505 said:I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong here, and am vaguely quoting something which I've previously read somewhere online, however, access to the middle as I take it was never fully removed, but more borded up, allowing use of the platform when it was absolutely needed.Thank you for this. The sim doesn't appear to be accurate for the 1981 era in the Cogload area. Not a complaint, just an observation and I know know its sometimes necessary to do this to enable better accuracy for later eras and to save on developers workload. I think Newton Abbott is in the same category, but actually this still works very well for 1981. I've been playing around with Ed's timetable and I'm now shunting trains from P2 to P3 and running round there and then shunting back from Taunton East into P5. I can't say I'm happy with a propelled movement from Taunton East into P5 which towards a GPS (618) at danger The other way would be to propel from P3 to Taunton West LOS but that is effectively the same thing so I guess I'll have to compromise. I vividly remember an accident at Derby in the 1970s when a train of brand new Mark 3s forming 5A12 0820 EP - Willesden CS were propelling out of Etches Park towards DY428 which was at that time still a GPS. DY428 was at danger to protect 7V28 a Tinsley - Severn tunnel steel train which was cleared to run along the goods line from DY449 towards DY392. You can guess the rest - 5A12 passed DY428 at danger and went straight through the middle of 7V28. It was quite a mess! Subsequently there was a local instruction change that the route had to be set throughout for such movements and then only towards a main aspect at danger pending alterations to the signalling arrangements. If that was not possible the move had to be hauled and not propelled which actually became the norm with the whole movement hauled by the EP jocko and running to the back of the station where the jocko was detached. Eventually by the very early 1980s all propelled moves from EP to/from the station area had to have a brake rear or second rear, otherwise they had to be hauled too. That too followed an accident where a propelled ECS move from P2 to EP didn't move after the signal was cleared. The signal was put back (there was no requirement to advise the driver in those days), the route timed off and a route set for an EDMU from P3 to EP. The DMU moved off and so eventually did the propelled LHS which passed the signal at the south end of P2 at danger and two met on the pointwork at the end of P2 and P3! DY428 subsequently became a three aspect signal with a subsidiary signal and, although I stand to be corrected, I think it also precipitated a rule change too. I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 26/12/2017 at 03:24 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 03:15 #104510 | |
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GeoffM
6280 posts |
I wasn't aware that there were ever 4 tracks from Cogload to Taunton! Makes sense though. Speaking generally, doing older eras is a lot harder as the information often isn't there. Even the SRS has limited use as there is little more than a track plan and some signals in most cases. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 08:29 #104511 | |
jc92
3629 posts |
The sim isnt accurate for 1981 as exeter PSB didnt open until 1985 and didnt complete taking over the whole area until 1986.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 10:02 #104512 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2023 posts |
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/MEMORIES-BIGCHANGE.htm The above link shows some of the changes to the Taunton area on resignalling. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 10:09 #104514 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
VInce in post 104509 said:[quote=pedroathome;post=104505]Another and better way of achieving this is to run the ECS to Taunton Goods and RR on the reception line, return to P2 and start the next service eastbound from there. Don't know why I didn't see that before... Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 10:10 #104515 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2023 posts |
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/MEMORIES-SIGNAL%20BOXES.htm Is also interesting Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 10:44 #104517 | |
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Rupert
5 posts |
jc92 in post 104511 said:The sim isnt accurate for 1981 as exeter PSB didnt open until 1985 and didnt complete taking over the whole area until 1986. Even then Exeter PSB was not able to take over the Taunton station area due to issues with a panel processor so the new signalling had to be controlled by Taunton East Junction and Silk Mill Crossing boxes until March 1987. Last edited: 26/12/2017 at 10:44 by Rupert Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 11:29 #104518 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2023 posts |
That's interesting as it explains why there is a picture on one of those links above with 20 and 120 signals plated "T" and not "E". Presumably the new E10k Interlockings at Taunton and Silk Mill were just controlled by a local panel with conventional post office relays until the panel processor at Exeter was ready? Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 12:49 #104523 | |
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pedroathome
887 posts |
GeoffM in post 104510 said:I wasn't aware that there were ever 4 tracks from Cogload to Taunton! Makes sense though.And if you look at the controlled signal numbers, they follow the numbering sequence for the relief line, not main line Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 15:37 #104525 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
GeoffM in post 104510 said:Speaking generally, doing older eras is a lot harder as the information often isn't there. Even the SRS has limited use as there is little more than a track plan and some signals in most cases.I'm a little surprised by this comment - whilst the coverage varies by BR region, for the WR the SRS have a fairly complete collection of signalling diagrams, which show more than just "some" of the signals. (Unless you're referring to the lack of interlocking details, in which case I think you'll need to go back in time to ask BR(WR) to better preserve their records!) Last edited: 26/12/2017 at 15:39 by Danny252 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 15:44 #104526 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Danny252 in post 104525 said:GeoffM in post 104510 said:I'll give you Newport as one example of the SRS. James Nelhams and myself could only find around half of the IRJ plans needed to make the simulation, control tables where no existent, nor was details like ground frames etc.Speaking generally, doing older eras is a lot harder as the information often isn't there. Even the SRS has limited use as there is little more than a track plan and some signals in most cases.I'm a little surprised by this comment - whilst the coverage varies by BR region, for the WR the SRS have a fairly complete collection of signalling diagrams, which show more than just "some" of the signals. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Taunton Platforms 3 and 4 26/12/2017 at 15:45 #104527 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2023 posts |
The plans only show where everything was, not how it works. For simple areas it's fairly easy to deduce the most likely way something would have operated, but for more complex areas it would be complete guesswork (albeit educated guesswork by those of us with the appropriate training and underlying knowledge) without the control tables. I should add that the signal box diagram is fairly useless - it isn't to scale therefore doesn't show exactly where everything is. Last edited: 26/12/2017 at 17:03 by Stephen Fulcher Reason: None given Log in to reply |