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Creating a Time Table

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Creating a Time Table 11/03/2018 at 18:53 #106660
Kimb01996
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Hi all so i want to create a Marylebone Timetable based on the 24th January 2017. and i'm wondering how people get information about getting timetables. i've tried open train times but i'm unable to see the timetable for that day
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Creating a Time Table 12/03/2018 at 03:03 #106673
whatlep
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Kimb01996 in post 106660 said:
Hi all so i want to create a Marylebone Timetable based on the 24th January 2017. and i'm wondering how people get information about getting timetables. i've tried open train times but i'm unable to see the timetable for that day
You need to acquire the timetables from a supplier or have a friendly helper supply them. Me for example. As an unexpected bonus of privatisation, a lot of material is now available online that used to be strcitly private & confidential within the railway industry. Network Rail's current timetables can be found online simply by searching for "working timetable". It's worth downloading them and squirreling them away against the day someone wants them. That should take you here:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/timetabling/working-timetable/

Your January 2017 WTTs for Marylebone are attached to this post.

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Last edited: 12/03/2018 at 03:15 by whatlep
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Creating a Time Table 12/03/2018 at 19:29 #106695
GeoffM
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Network Rail Open Data portal would have supplied you with that information had you downloaded it by the date you wanted it. Historical data is not available there, or on RTT, or OTT - or not more than a couple of weeks in the past anyway.

Was 24th January special in some way? Whatlep's WTTs presumably have the long term planned schedules but not specials, engineering works, STPs etc.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
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Creating a Time Table 12/03/2018 at 21:27 #106700
Splodge
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For what its worth, to create my Piccadilly TT for 30th December I went to copy and paste certain locations from Open Train Times, which I was anticipating having to fill out further using the WTT, into a spreadsheet. This spreadsheet still works and brings up the data for that day (complete with delay information and platform usage) over two months later which ended up giving me a comfortable margin in which to complete the TT.
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway.
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Creating a Time Table 12/03/2018 at 21:55 #106702
Steamer
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Splodge in post 106700 said:
For what its worth, to create my Piccadilly TT for 30th December I went to copy and paste certain locations from Open Train Times, which I was anticipating having to fill out further using the WTT, into a spreadsheet. This spreadsheet still works and brings up the data for that day (complete with delay information and platform usage) over two months later which ended up giving me a comfortable margin in which to complete the TT.
Just to expand on that- RTT and OTT don't allow location-based searches older than a week, but if you can enter a schedule UID and date in your browser's address bar, it will show the schedule if the date/UID is valid and the data has been retained. I'm not exactly sure how long the data is held for though, I'd be surprised if it's more than 6 months.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Creating a Time Table 12/03/2018 at 23:22 #106714
GeoffM
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Steamer in post 106702 said:
Splodge in post 106700 said:
For what its worth, to create my Piccadilly TT for 30th December I went to copy and paste certain locations from Open Train Times, which I was anticipating having to fill out further using the WTT, into a spreadsheet. This spreadsheet still works and brings up the data for that day (complete with delay information and platform usage) over two months later which ended up giving me a comfortable margin in which to complete the TT.
Just to expand on that- RTT and OTT don't allow location-based searches older than a week, but if you can enter a schedule UID and date in your browser's address bar, it will show the schedule if the date/UID is valid and the data has been retained. I'm not exactly sure how long the data is held for though, I'd be surprised if it's more than 6 months.
I chatted to Peter of OTT as I wrote the above comment and he couldn't remember if it was 2 or 3 weeks.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 18:38 #106900
Kimb01996
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whatlep in post 106673 said:
Kimb01996 in post 106660 said:
Hi all so i want to create a Marylebone Timetable based on the 24th January 2017. and i'm wondering how people get information about getting timetables. i've tried open train times but i'm unable to see the timetable for that day
You need to acquire the timetables from a supplier or have a friendly helper supply them. Me for example. As an unexpected bonus of privatisation, a lot of material is now available online that used to be strcitly private & confidential within the railway industry. Network Rail's current timetables can be found online simply by searching for "working timetable". It's worth downloading them and squirreling them away against the day someone wants them. That should take you here:
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/timetabling/working-timetable/

Your January 2017 WTTs for Marylebone are attached to this post.
thanks for that info. I'm currently off Sick from working with chiltern Railways and most of the people know me there so is there a possibility they might have the file there or even a tempoary time table for that date still on file?

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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 18:45 #106901
Kimb01996
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GeoffM in post 106695 said:
Network Rail Open Data portal would have supplied you with that information had you downloaded it by the date you wanted it. Historical data is not available there, or on RTT, or OTT - or not more than a couple of weeks in the past anyway.

Was 24th January special in some way? Whatlep's WTTs presumably have the long term planned schedules but not specials, engineering works, STPs etc.
my apologies i meant to put 24th of December and it was when London Paddington was closed but GWR were running their HSTs out of Marylebone to turn around near bicester to get to oxford and onwards towards Wales and Devon

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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 18:48 #106902
Kimb01996
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Apologies to everyone for not replying been having issues with personal matters. also i have the date wrong for the scenario i request assistance on. it's meant ot be december 24th 2017 which is when London Paddington Closed for Crossrail works to be done over Christmas so GWR rented platform 3 to be used for their train to go to Wales and Devon. And i happened to visit Marylebone on that day
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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 19:42 #106903
Steamer
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You'll have to ask your colleagues at Chiltern if they still have the timetable data, and if they'd be willing to make a copy of it for you, or wait and see if a Forum member happened to save it.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 20:52 #106904
Meld
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Steamer in post 106903 said:
You'll have to ask your colleagues at Chiltern if they still have the timetable data, and if they'd be willing to make a copy of it for you, or wait and see if a Forum member happened to save it.


Found an Xmas 2017 xml file pm'd you details of where to get it from

Last edited: 20/03/2018 at 21:17 by Meld
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Creating a Time Table 20/03/2018 at 21:20 #106905
Stanyon
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if you go on http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/full/MARYLBN/24/12/17 and click each train all tmes are there and the site stores a years worth of data............
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Creating a Time Table 21/03/2018 at 20:53 #106928
Kimb01996
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Meld in post 106904 said:
Steamer in post 106903 said:
You'll have to ask your colleagues at Chiltern if they still have the timetable data, and if they'd be willing to make a copy of it for you, or wait and see if a Forum member happened to save it.


Found an Xmas 2017 xml file pm'd you details of where to get it from
thanks for that i've tried to import but it doesn't seem to be working. not sure if i'm doing it right or not

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Creating a Time Table 22/03/2018 at 08:02 #106930
Meld
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Kimbo - you will have to extract the file from the zip first
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Creating a Time Table 17/04/2018 at 09:38 #107589
Edmund1635
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GeoffM in post 106695 said:
Network Rail Open Data portal would have supplied you with that information had you downloaded it by the date you wanted it. Historical data is not available there, or on RTT, or OTT - or not more than a couple of weeks in the past anyway.

Was 24th January special in some way? Whatlep's WTTs presumably have the long term planned schedules but not specials, engineering works, STPs etc.
Hi, I am self learning to write timetables too, but when I am researching I found that WTT published by Network Rails gives pretty much everything one needs, except for train types, i.e. for a given service I wouldn't be able to match the correct train type, e.g. for West Hamsptead there seems to be insufficient information to tell what class is used, or even in what formation (e.g. if it is one or two 319 units). The timing load is sure confusing enough too, I know it is not intended to tell what type is used, but seeing 319 and 375 there does baffles me (I gather 319s don't run on Thameslink anymore, and neither does 387, which I think is what 375 refers to)

Am I missing something here? Would love advice on where I can find the missing piece to get the timetable accurate.

Last edited: 17/04/2018 at 09:39 by Edmund1635
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Creating a Time Table 17/04/2018 at 14:24 #107591
Steamer
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Edmund1635 in post 107589 said:
GeoffM in post 106695 said:
Network Rail Open Data portal would have supplied you with that information had you downloaded it by the date you wanted it. Historical data is not available there, or on RTT, or OTT - or not more than a couple of weeks in the past anyway.

Was 24th January special in some way? Whatlep's WTTs presumably have the long term planned schedules but not specials, engineering works, STPs etc.
Hi, I am self learning to write timetables too, but when I am researching I found that WTT published by Network Rails gives pretty much everything one needs, except for train types, i.e. for a given service I wouldn't be able to match the correct train type, e.g. for West Hamsptead there seems to be insufficient information to tell what class is used, or even in what formation (e.g. if it is one or two 319 units). The timing load is sure confusing enough too, I know it is not intended to tell what type is used, but seeing 319 and 375 there does baffles me (I gather 319s don't run on Thameslink anymore, and neither does 387, which I think is what 375 refers to)

Am I missing something here? Would love advice on where I can find the missing piece to get the timetable accurate.
Prior to December 2014, Thameslink services were operated by a mix of 319s and 377s. 387s then entered service, replacing 319s. The 377s, 387s and any remaining 319s have all been replaced by 700s; 387s now work Peterborough/Cambridge services out of King's Cross, 377s have moved to Southeastern and Southern, 319s have gone to a variety of places.

The 700s are a mix of 8 car or 12 car units. Take a look at the document for City Thameslink station on this page, to see how many carriages each service is booked for. The units can't split or join in service due to their length, so by combining this information with platforms shown on Real Time Trains and similar sites, it should be reasonably easy to deduce next workings for each service.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 17/04/2018 at 14:25 by Steamer
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Creating a Time Table 20/04/2018 at 07:25 #107626
Edmund1635
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Hi Steamer thanks very much for the advice, that was very helpful.
I am wondering though if there may be other more official sources to train length and unit workings, similar to WTT released by Network Rail. Given all the published simsig timetable has these details I assume they can be accessed somehow within the industry, I just wonder if this is possible from the public domain.

The idea started off when I was enjoying the Wembley simulation and hope that if I could gather enough info I could give timetable writing a try. West Hampstead is also an area of my interest, as I used to study in Bedford in the old Thameslink days and when the then Midland Mainline trains offers free coffee or tea on board - a part of my life which I fondly miss.

Last edited: 20/04/2018 at 07:25 by Edmund1635
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Creating a Time Table 20/04/2018 at 10:47 #107628
9pN1SEAp
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Maybe it would be nice to have a pinned thread where stock diagrams could be added; there doesn't seem to be an easy way to find these for any specific TOC.
Jamie S (JAMS)
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Creating a Time Table 20/04/2018 at 11:21 #107630
Meld
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9pN1SEAp in post 107628 said:
Maybe it would be nice to have a pinned thread where stock diagrams could be added; there doesn't seem to be an easy way to find these for any specific TOC.
Modern EMU Yahoo group is a good place to start. There doesn't appear to be anything similar for DMUs - PRARs now defunct?? site may still be locatable on one of the time warp sites.

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Creating a Time Table 20/04/2018 at 17:42 #107636
GeoffM
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Second hand stock books / CWN (carriage working notices), platform allocation books can all be sources of information. Try auction sites online, or the Swindon Panel opening day has a swapmeet.

Freightmaster online for freights perhaps. Not used it personally.

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
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Creating a Time Table 20/04/2018 at 21:55 #107640
postal
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For those wanting to re-create pre-1990 TTs there is a huge repository of information held by the Yahoo Group British Railways loco-hauled coaching stock since 1948.

If you go to the "Files" tab from the home page, find the Carriage Workings folder and open the Carriage_Workings_Google-Drive_BRCS pdf there is a 9 page listing of links to scans of Carriage Working notices held on Google drive from pre-war to about 1990. The scanned documents include information from all of the pre-Nationalisation railways and all the BR regions. I know it has been an absolute mine of information for Pascal (58050) and VInce when they have been creating their beautifully crafted pieces of work.

I can only admire the dedication of the people who have created and posted the scans as it must have taken an awful lot of time and effort.

"I drink to make other people seem more interesting." - George Jean Nathan, (14/02/1882 - 08/04/1958), American author, editor, and drama critic
Last edited: 20/04/2018 at 22:48 by postal
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