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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 07/09/2018 at 23:39 #111987
Soton_Speed
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Couple of final minor bugs from me....

Activity for 1P46 should be DER 5M07 not DR
Similarly, activity for 4S17 should be DER 5S06 not DR

The train description for an iteration of Trip 01 (UID 5T01L) states that it is formed of Cl08 + 3xCarFlats when it is Cl08+1xBG - yeah I know its minor, but it threw me when trying to keep track of the trip workings/destinations.

Once again many thanks to Pascal and Postal for all your efforts.

One probably for TomOF, but have had problems with 4S38 leaving Citadel. Due to disruption, have had to re-platform this train - through F2+Edit - and every time (3x) it has reversed its direction of travel after the crew change so has caused a blockage at the North end of the station as the driver 'changes ends' back to the correct end - I do have a coupe of saves if needed.

Have also had 5P03 complain of wrong route at CE274, trying to route via Rome St but TT'd via Penrith-CarlisleP3-Caldew.

TIA

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 08/09/2018 at 00:10 #111988
postal
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Soton_Speed in post 111987 said:
Couple of final minor bugs from me....

Activity for 1P46 should be DER 5M07 not DR
Similarly, activity for 4S17 should be DER 5S06 not DR

The train description for an iteration of Trip 01 (UID 5T01L) states that it is formed of Cl08 + 3xCarFlats when it is Cl08+1xBG - yeah I know its minor, but it threw me when trying to keep track of the trip workings/destinations.

Once again many thanks to Pascal and Postal for all your efforts.

One probably for TomOF, but have had problems with 4S38 leaving Citadel. Due to disruption, have had to re-platform this train - through F2+Edit - and every time (3x) it has reversed its direction of travel after the crew change so has caused a blockage at the North end of the station as the driver 'changes ends' back to the correct end - I do have a coupe of saves if needed.

Have also had 5P03 complain of wrong route at CE274, trying to route via Rome St but TT'd via Penrith-CarlisleP3-Caldew.

TIA
Thanks for the nice words.

I've dug back into the archive and can confirm that the unpowered portions of 1P46 and 4S17 still show as diesel powered, so thanks for that. The two detaches and the typo in the Trip 01 description will be updated and off to Tom in a few minutes.

For those who are wondering, the Trip 01 typo is in the description in the front tab of the TT. The consist on the second tab is correct.

"I am just going outside and may be some time." - Capt. Lawrence Oates, (17/03/1880 – 16/03/1912), British army officer and Antarctic explorer.
Last edited: 08/09/2018 at 00:13 by postal
Reason: None given

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 08/09/2018 at 09:18 #111990
kbarber
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58050 in post 111973 said:
To reduce the length of 6S73 isn't a big deal. Remember the majority of freight trains in this timetable have been created to represent the maximum length limit of each service according to the 1979-/1980 LMR freight train loads book. 448m = 70SLUs which is the length limit for Kingmoor Yard. 384m = 60SLUs, so if 6S73 was amended with a length of 60SLUs then that would fit. To be 100% accurate we'd really need an eye witness account of some BR publication which defined the actual length limit of each train that ran during this time & the chances of getting that is about the same as finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The majority of the freights between Newcastle - Carlisle - Newcastle are loaded to the maxc as if there were space available then wagons off diverted trains that would normally run via the ECML would be marshalled on the rear as the trains left Carlisle, although no loops to worry about on Carlisle going that way. Will amend the timetable for the next version update.
When I was in the Brent, I'm pretty certain 6S73 was booked to be 60SLU, as were virtually all the other class 6s. The only exception, if memory serves, was 6P85 (the Workington), which loaded to 70SLU

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 08/09/2018 at 11:33 #111992
58050
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kbarber in post 111990 said:
58050 in post 111973 said:
To reduce the length of 6S73 isn't a big deal. Remember the majority of freight trains in this timetable have been created to represent the maximum length limit of each service according to the 1979-/1980 LMR freight train loads book. 448m = 70SLUs which is the length limit for Kingmoor Yard. 384m = 60SLUs, so if 6S73 was amended with a length of 60SLUs then that would fit. To be 100% accurate we'd really need an eye witness account of some BR publication which defined the actual length limit of each train that ran during this time & the chances of getting that is about the same as finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The majority of the freights between Newcastle - Carlisle - Newcastle are loaded to the maxc as if there were space available then wagons off diverted trains that would normally run via the ECML would be marshalled on the rear as the trains left Carlisle, although no loops to worry about on Carlisle going that way. Will amend the timetable for the next version update.
When I was in the Brent, I'm pretty certain 6S73 was booked to be 60SLU, as were virtually all the other class 6s. The only exception, if memory serves, was 6P85 (the Workington), which loaded to 70SLU
Certainly length limits for freight trains are designed so they can be recessed in loops along the route if required. However when I worked at Whitemoor TOPS back in 19886S96 1310 SX SLK Parkeston Quay - Mossend was booked to conveyed up to 70SLUs(448m). This train called at Doncaster, Tyne, Carlisle Kingmoor, Law Jn & Mopssend. The other Cl.6 speedlinks were loaded to 60SLUs via the ECML to Millerhill yard near Edinburgh. That said train lengths could be extended by authority of Regional Control. Bear in mind that this timetable covers the period of the Penmanshiel Tunnel collapse & I'm sure alot of trains heading north via Carlisle would have ran with extended lenthsto cater for displaced wagons due to the line being closed. Kingmoor yard being the biggest in the country could have handled trains in excess of 100SLUs, so in all honesty 10SLUs here or there isn't really alot. Whitemoor Yard had a length limit of 70SLUs, but on occasions would take trains alot longer. I remember one night a Felixstowe bound freightliner failed on the ECML in the Doncaster area. A single Cl.56 was dispatched from Carr loco to rescue the train as it was diverted into Whitemoor Yard. The train was over 100 SLUs in length as the Cl.56 came to a stand outside the TOPS office. The Cl.56 ddetached & returned LD back to Doncaster. The two Cl.37/0s were dragged to March TMD by one og the yard pilots & the 25 freightliner vehicles had to wait for another loco to work the train to Ipswich. Freight trains which conveyed extra traffic were first wired out by the Regional Control Office where the train originated from after receiving confirmation from the terminating yard(yard supervisor or AFA - Area Freight Assistant) that they could accept the train & only then was the train set off on the move. Also the wire would also be sent to all the PSBs on the route so they too would know of the extra length as well as receiving a phomne call from the Current Freight & Resources Officer or Duty Freight Manager.

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 09/09/2018 at 10:35 #112017
TomOF
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lazzer in post 111971 said:
Just spotted another thing with 6S73, although this is the one that enters at Carnforth at 23.42.

You can't use the the loop at Oxenholme because that's even shorter, so the only option is to run 6S73 to Tebay, and get it out of the way there, but not until it's held up 1S03 anyway. 6S73 will, of course, call in a wrong route if you signal it to continue through on the Down Main if you don't edit the TT to ignore Grayrigg.
.
I've somewhat overlooked this, but basically I could give consideration to not have trains call in when signalled past a loop at which they are booked to stop (but are then to rejoin the main line) and automatically delete the loop location. It's then up to the signaller to deal with the consequences, although I'm sure there will be various arguments for and against.

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 09/09/2018 at 11:43 #112020
Andrew G
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TomOF in post 112017 said:

I've somewhat overlooked this, but basically I could give consideration to not have trains call in when signalled past a loop at which they are booked to stop (but are then to rejoin the main line) and automatically delete the loop location. It's then up to the signaller to deal with the consequences, although I'm sure there will be various arguments for and against.
Not sure I can think of any logical arguments against - except possibly allowing for any services marked to stop for a Crew Change.

Motherwell already handles this in the way you have outlined for most of the loops on Panel 6.

The logical argument for allowing a train signalled main line to continue is that it might be late itself and already be running behind the service which was intended to over take it or the service which was intended to overtake it might itself be running late thereby negating the need to be looped. The loop might also already be in sue by an out of course - but slower service.

Some WTT writers have put passing rather than departure time for looped services - personally I am not a fan of this approach.

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 09/09/2018 at 14:29 #112021
postal
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Andrew G in post 112020 said:
Some WTT writers have put passing rather than departure time for looped services - personally I am not a fan of this approach.
+1

If you want the train to run, all you need to do is go into F2 > Timetable Options > Edit Timetable and set the current/next location as the first location after the loop you want to pass. Leaves the TT as intended for when there is no perturbation but allows the signaller to control what is actually happening on the day.

"I am just going outside and may be some time." - Capt. Lawrence Oates, (17/03/1880 – 16/03/1912), British army officer and Antarctic explorer.
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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 09/09/2018 at 15:51 #112023
Andrew G
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postal in post 112021 said:
Andrew G in post 112020 said:
Some WTT writers have put passing rather than departure time for looped services - personally I am not a fan of this approach.
+1

If you want the train to run, all you need to do is go into F2 > Timetable Options > Edit Timetable and set the current/next location as the first location after the loop you want to pass. Leaves the TT as intended for when there is no perturbation but allows the signaller to control what is actually happening on the day.
Noted - although I am still interested if there are any logical downsides to adapting the simulation (similar to Motherwell).

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/09/2018 at 18:45 #112185
bluespider
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I just wanted to drop a quick post to say thank you to everybody involved with the update sim and this marvelous timetable. I've just finished the Monday timetable (and somehow managed to clock up 94%) and it kept me on my toes for the full 24 hours. I probably got lucky with the game throwing out the Monday as it started relatively gently and then built up quite nice during the day. In the end I had to resort to an alarm on phone to stop engines moving in and out of the fuel points getting forgotten whilst I kept spinning other plates and I can easily see how not keeping on top of the local trip movements can come back to haunt you...

The only thing I was wondering was regarding the traction on some of the Adexes. 5Z09 is given 14 minutes from Morecambe to Carnforth Down main with electric traction. Whilst the LM region are mercifully quick with detaching / attaching locos it seems far to little time to get to Lancaster (presumably) change from diesel to electric and then back to Carnforth in the time allowed?

Please don't think I'm being pedantic as the timetable completely fascinates me and it was something that stuck in my mind as I fought my way through the day which I'm curious about.

Once again - many thanks for all your efforts. Now onward to Tuesday...

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/09/2018 at 18:58 #112186
postal
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bluespider in post 112185 said:
The only thing I was wondering was regarding the traction on some of the Adexes. 5Z09 is given 14 minutes from Morecambe to Carnforth Down main with electric traction. Whilst the LM region are mercifully quick with detaching / attaching locos it seems far to little time to get to Lancaster (presumably) change from diesel to electric and then back to Carnforth in the time allowed?
One for Pascal but possibly a typo in the Morecambe time.

"I am just going outside and may be some time." - Capt. Lawrence Oates, (17/03/1880 – 16/03/1912), British army officer and Antarctic explorer.
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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/09/2018 at 19:08 #112187
58050
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bluespider in post 112185 said:
I just wanted to drop a quick post to say thank you to everybody involved with the update sim and this marvelous timetable. I've just finished the Monday timetable (and somehow managed to clock up 94%) and it kept me on my toes for the full 24 hours. I probably got lucky with the game throwing out the Monday as it started relatively gently and then built up quite nice during the day. In the end I had to resort to an alarm on phone to stop engines moving in and out of the fuel points getting forgotten whilst I kept spinning other plates and I can easily see how not keeping on top of the local trip movements can come back to haunt you...

The only thing I was wondering was regarding the traction on some of the Adexes. 5Z09 is given 14 minutes from Morecambe to Carnforth Down main with electric traction. Whilst the LM region are mercifully quick with detaching / attaching locos it seems far to little time to get to Lancaster (presumably) change from diesel to electric and then back to Carnforth in the time allowed?

Please don't think I'm being pedantic as the timetable completely fascinates me and it was something that stuck in my mind as I fought my way through the day which I'm curious about.

Once again - many thanks for all your efforts. Now onward to Tuesday...

I'll have to dig out the Special Traffic Notices I have to see if there is a typo or not. Should have the answer either tonight or tomorrow as those STNs could be in one of 6 or 7 stoarage containers. Will report back when I have the answer. But I'm pleased to hear that you enjoyed the challenge & yes I'd agree that doing the Monday first is probably the best way to progress onto the other days of the week as some days are busier than others depending on what day certain trains run.

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/09/2018 at 23:19 #112192
RainbowNines
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Up to about 5pm on my first run through still, after a couple of weeks away on business...

The old version eased off during the day, but was quite fascinated to feel real pressure during 2-3 pm. A real glut of trains in the station, and a sudden fight for land around the yard headshunts! There's a similar demand on the Annan section around the same time.

Still most enjoyable - I'm at 86.3% (my calculator tells me), so I don't think 90% is coming this time round... I'll just have to have another go, what a shame...!

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Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 24/09/2018 at 01:07 #112299
RainbowNines
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I've not been discreet about my love for the Carlisle sim and the chance to play it on the Loader with the original version's issues resolved has been gnawing away at me for so long - I've done enough of the sycophantic thanks, but now I'm through one complete day I must offer another sincere doff of the cap to all concerned.

Hopefully I've done Tuesday justice. Now for the rest of the week...!


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