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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 12:53 #111205
Phil-jmw
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postal in post 111043 said:
Phil-jmw in post 111032 said:
I managed to wrongly route 6M29 2210 Earles Sdgs - London Rd (Upperby Yard) towards Kingmoor.

Two things:-
1. 6M29 driver didn't query the route at London Rd Jn.
2. After I realised my mistake I offered the train to Kingmoor Yard and the shunter accepted it into Recessing Sdgs 1-5. The manual does say to expect a delay when sending trains to Kingmoor that aren't booked there, but 6M29 has currently been standing on the Down Goods at Kingmoor Depot for over two hours and still the recess sdgs slot has not been given.

I know from experience that trains did often queue up for lengthy periods of time waiting to get into yards (and on the Trent sim you can wait over 30 mins for a Toton New Bank or Old Bank slot), so I'm just wondering if prototypically lengthy waiting times have been built into the sim or is there a bug preventing me getting the slot? I've attached a save.


Regards,

Phil.
Presumably 1979-1980 TT.

For Down trains, you don't need ring the yard; the slot is granted automatically. However, I suspect this is only for trains which have a designated arrival location in the TT or which are booked through the yard to carry on Northwards (i.e. the yard is not the terminating location) so you've found a gap in the defences. Rather than instructing the train to PSAD to the Down Arrivals side of the Yard, you can manually signal it into one of the Up Departure lines without a slot. This is the TT'd route for some trains which have a RR move in the yard then depart back towards Carlisle (and which can leave a train sitting for a long time waiting the automatic slot before the Bobby reads the TT and puts the train into the Up Departures!). And if you wanted to be really finicky, you could then write a TT to send the train back from the UD after time for the RR move and into the sidings at Upperby. If you used the same UID, this would also trigger the LD move from Upperby to either Wapping Sdgs or Kingmoor (can't remember which off the top of my head).
Yes, the 79-80 TT.

I did eventually send 6M29 to one of the Up Departure lines.

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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 14:47 #111213
nroberts
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GeorgeUK in post 111203 said:
I cannot signal trains from Oxenholme Platform 3 to the up line, or between the up and down lines at Oxenholme.
Ensure you don't have the auto branch working enabled. That appears to lock (normal) the exit points from P3 towards the mains.

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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 16:36 #111215
Steamer
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GeorgeUK in post 111203 said:
I cannot signal trains from Oxenholme Platform 3 to the up line, or between the up and down lines at Oxenholme.
Ensure there's no route set from CE62- CE52; this is preventing a route being set through the crossovers at Oxenholme.

It has been reported (#21449), and is under investigation.

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 18:32 #111223
TomOF
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Just a quick update to say that I've been working on as many reported issues as possible. I had hoped to get an update out but I'm somewhat short on time.

I'll be away for a week and purposefully won't be going near anything resembling a dev environment.

Apologies for this, but please keep any issues you find coming and I'll take a look on my return.

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The following users said thank you: hotwellian, norman B, HST125Scorton, Steamer
Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 18:37 #111224
hotwellian
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The lever frame for Currock wagon works doesn't work 80s version. Can open the lever frame but there is no way of setting the points.
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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 19:13 #111228
postal
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hotwellian in post 111224 said:
The lever frame for Currock wagon works doesn't work 80s version. Can open the lever frame but there is no way of setting the points.
There is only a single lever in the frame. If you work that the train should then be able to pass. The other GFs in the sim are similar.

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
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Carlisle Issues 18/08/2018 at 19:22 #111230
HST125Scorton
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GeorgeUK in post 111203 said:
I cannot signal trains from Oxenholme Platform 3 to the up line, or between the up and down lines at Oxenholme.
I can verify it works normally in the 2000 and 2016 era, although I do raise a issue regarding signal CE38 at Oxenholme, I incorrectly pathed 6X77 into the Down Loop so I cancelled the route on CE38 the usual message of 120 secs approach lock appears but the signal itself doesn't flash when but back on.


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Aaron (AJRO)
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Carlisle Issues 19/08/2018 at 15:31 #111270
HST125Scorton
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Trains sat at Signal CE463 Kingmoor Up Loop don't call in if trains is waiting right of way instead of booked time.
Noticed trains entering in from Carnforth 2016 era enter two mins late any idea why?

Aaron (AJRO)
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Carlisle Issues 19/08/2018 at 16:01 #111272
postal
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HST125Scorton in post 111270 said:
Noticed trains entering in from Carnforth 2016 era enter two mins late any idea why?
Happens to all trains in every era. It's a known problem not specific to Carlisle. I think #14540 on the reporting system on 20/11/15 refers.

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X (19/05/1925 – 21/02/1965) American Muslim minister and human rights activist.
Last edited: 19/08/2018 at 16:02 by postal
Reason: None given

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Carlisle Issues 20/08/2018 at 12:09 #111292
Bonan
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Running the default Carlisle 79-80 FRI timetable, 6M24 is stuck at signal CE9 (Carnforth North Jnc) and has been for over 30 minutes. The train was on time and is now late, the next box seems unwilling to accept it. Not had any problems before. Does the sim include problems further down the line or is it simpy a bug?

EDIT: My fault, I had a TC fault on the last track section and the train reporting number had "jumped". Sorry.

Swedish signaller, Fagersta Central PSB
Last edited: 20/08/2018 at 12:12 by Bonan
Reason: None given

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Carlisle Issues 25/08/2018 at 19:46 #111485
fabiolanzafame
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Good evening, I downloaded and installed from this website the Carlisle's timetables of 2017 and 2016, but the Loader doesen't read them. Why? They are on the right folder.
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Carlisle Issues 25/08/2018 at 19:48 #111486
HST125Scorton
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fabiolanzafame in post 111485 said:
Good evening, I downloaded and installed from this website the Carlisle's timetables of 2017 and 2016, but the Loader doesen't read them. Why? They are on the right folder.
These timetables were requested by myself to be removed off the site in which then I could upload the new versions for loader. [https://www.simsig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/48925]
I will have these timetables uploaded within the next month once I've tided them up and tested them to be sure.
I'm sorry I can't help more as I can.

Aaron (AJRO)
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Carlisle Issues 26/08/2018 at 12:37 #111510
hotwellian
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I just realized that I had confused the Wagon repairs lever frame at Upperby (935) with the Currock wagon sidings (946). Thanks for the advice.
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Carlisle Issues 26/08/2018 at 12:39 #111511
hotwellian
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HST125Scorton in post 111230 said:
GeorgeUK in post 111203 said:
I cannot signal trains from Oxenholme Platform 3 to the up line, or between the up and down lines at Oxenholme.
I can verify it works normally in the 2000 and 2016 era, although I do raise a issue regarding signal CE38 at Oxenholme, I incorrectly pathed 6X77 into the Down Loop so I cancelled the route on CE38 the usual message of 120 secs approach lock appears but the signal itself doesn't flash when but back on.

You neede to disable the auto working button on the Windermere branch.

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Carlisle Issues 29/08/2018 at 15:00 #111636
lazzer
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I've noticed that Simsig has stopped playing my "train entering system" sound when trains enter at either Corby Gates or Low House. All other locations work fine, although I'm sure it's done it with Lockerbie once or twice too.

I'm playing the loader version of Carlisle (version 4.8.2), and the 79/80 TT. I did notice that the loader performed an update last time I opened it yesterday, giving me a compatibility warning when I re-loaded my saved game. I didn't get the compatibility warning when re-loading the same saved game today.

Is this a known issue, or just one of those glitches that pops up every now and then? Would a complete restart probably fix it?

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Carlisle Issues 29/08/2018 at 15:31 #111639
Steamer
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Working for me in 4.8.2 in 1980s mode at Corby Gates.

There was an issue in version 4.8 of the Loader where some entry points weren't generating a 'train entering system' warning, however that has since been fixed. It could be a hangover from that?

"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Carlisle Issues 29/08/2018 at 15:37 #111640
lazzer
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Steamer in post 111639 said:
Working for me in 4.8.2 in 1980s mode at Corby Gates.

There was an issue in version 4.8 of the Loader where some entry points weren't generating a 'train entering system' warning, however that has since been fixed. It could be a hangover from that?
That sounds like it might be it. When I restart my laptop I'll find out ...

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Carlisle Issues 30/08/2018 at 14:25 #111650
lazzer
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OK, first of all the sound problem from yesterday has fixed itself. It may have been my stupid laptop.

Secondly, I just noticed something interesting. Playing the 79/80TT in loader version 4.8.2, it's 11.57, and 1S12 has just passed Kingmoor on the down main line. I have 9L85 waiting in the yard to reverse out behind CE473 signal. The whole of the track circuit between the back of CE473 and signal CE488 is occupied by 1S12, but the sim has cleared the route I set from shunt signal CE469 on the Up Through Siding to CE488. Is it prototypical of how things work here?

If 1S12 were to come to a stand here, 9L85 would be able to shunt right up behind it, and you'd have both main lines blocked.

Screenshot included, with CE469 showing proceed aspect for 9L85.


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Last edited: 30/08/2018 at 14:25 by lazzer
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Carlisle Issues 30/08/2018 at 17:35 #111653
Phil-jmw
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In my experience 'oversetting' as it is called was considered bad practice and was discouraged, even more so when oversetting from a shunt signal, for the very reason you've demonstrated (potential for 2 in a section).

I recall a signalman at Derby many years ago rather robustly reining in his (up to then rather cocky) trainee who was about to set just such a route from the Up Goods at Wetmore to the Down Main behind a passenger train for a freight to depart to Bescot. The trainee later admitted he'd had some of his cockiness knocked out of him that day.

Last edited: 30/08/2018 at 17:41 by Phil-jmw
Reason: None given

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Carlisle Issues 30/08/2018 at 22:13 #111655
jc92
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It does beg the question though: why does the interlocking allow a permissive route where permissive working isn't authorised?
(in reference to the prototype, I'm not saying the sim is incorrect)

Last edited: 30/08/2018 at 22:14 by jc92
Reason: None given

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Carlisle Issues 31/08/2018 at 09:13 #111675
JamesN
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jc92 in post 111655 said:
It does beg the question though: why does the interlocking allow a permissive route where permissive working isn't authorised?
(in reference to the prototype, I'm not saying the sim is incorrect)
Happens in plenty of places - in short the rules for where permissive working is allowed change over time; can be ignored in certain circumstances and so on.

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Carlisle Issues 31/08/2018 at 09:53 #111676
Giantray
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There are lots of places shunts signals work like this, not only on Carlisle. The Signaller will have specific box instructions relating to the use of these signals. It is interesting because it happens in several place on Carlisle but not all locations.

Doesn't happen at Penrith (Up Main to Dn Main), Harrison Sidings (Up Main to Dn Main), PETTRIL BRIDGE JN (Petteril Bridge Sidings to Down Newcastle).

I suspect in the case of Carlisle, these moves work because they are used for Runrounds, Shunting, attaching/detaching locos (where propelling is not allowed) etc

However, issues may arise that require signals to be used in a specific way. Again these get put in the Signal Box Special Instructions (SBSIs), usually cheaper than reconfiguring the interlocking, putting the onus on the Signaller to carry out the specific instructions. A Good example is on the London Bridge ASC Panel 7, where an incident occurred in the area of the Arrival/Departure Roads and the Electric/Freight/PAD/Locco sidings involving shunt signals. Permissive Working was permitted but after the incident, Permissive Working on those shunt signals in that area was withdrawn, however the interlocking was never changed and an instruction put in the SBSIs tell Signallers that they were not allowed to do Permissive Working.


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Professional Railwayman since 1981. Railway Historian (SER, LCDR)
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Carlisle Issues 31/08/2018 at 11:53 #111682
BarryM
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Is the "Staff" in?
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
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Carlisle Issues 31/08/2018 at 12:16 #111683
HST125Scorton
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All Eras
CE303 Carlisle Platform 3 Up, Incorrect signal aspects. If setting to the route to 'E' [East], If set to CE407 [London Road] it should be Signal Caution & then set to CE403 [Petterial Bridge Jn] it should be double caution. Instead when route is to CE403, CE303 Shows Green!. CE303 Should remain at double caution until CE403 is set to CE378 [Up Newcastle] which then all signals show green. If CE403 is set for CE384 [Up Midland], then CE403 should remain at Danger until the said train is approaching then it will clear to green.




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Aaron (AJRO)
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Carlisle Issues 31/08/2018 at 13:17 #111686
TomOF
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The omission of the double yellows for that route (and a few others I can't recall right now) was based on this being pointed out to me by one of the signalers at Carlisle.

I'm not entirely convinced approach control from red is required here due to the relatively low linespeeds involved here.

Do you mean should as in you are used to diverging routes doing this, or should as in you know the interlocking to actually behave this way from either observation or control tables?

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