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Routes not cancelling after passage of train

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 15/08/2018 at 21:18 #111085
budman94
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I am finding that routes are not cancelling after the passage of trains.

I am using Windows 10 and using both Exeter and Westbury but having the same problem with both.

Could anyone advise a solution??

Paul

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 15/08/2018 at 21:20 #111086
headshot119
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budman94 in post 111085 said:
I am finding that routes are not cancelling after the passage of trains.

I am using Windows 10 and using both Exeter and Westbury but having the same problem with both.

Could anyone advise a solution??

Paul
Both simulations only have TORR (Train Operated Route Release) enabled in beginner mode. You will need to cancel routes behind the trains.

"James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool Central"
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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 15/08/2018 at 21:31 #111087
budman94
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I am running in standard mode though!
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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 15/08/2018 at 21:39 #111088
headshot119
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budman94 in post 111087 said:
I am running in standard mode though!
Yes, which isn't beginner mode, hence TORR is not enabled.

"James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool Central"
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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 07:49 #111104
vloris
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So the behavior you see is not a bug or problem, it is intended behavior as that is how the real panel works.
On the real panel you also have to cancel all set routes after every train.

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 10:04 #111108
jc92
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This isn't mentioned in the Westbury manual at all and the Exeter manual states TORR. Is a startup option.

Unfortunately I'm at work right now and don't have my wiki login details but it could do with updating

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 16:28 #111132
TylerE
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vloris in post 111104 said:
So the behavior you see is not a bug or problem, it is intended behavior as that is how the real panel works.
On the real panel you also have to cancel all set routes after every train.
Out of curiosity, why were some panels implemented this way? Just technical limitations (of early panels?)? q

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 16:59 #111134
jc92
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TylerE in post 111132 said:
vloris in post 111104 said:
So the behavior you see is not a bug or problem, it is intended behavior as that is how the real panel works.
On the real panel you also have to cancel all set routes after every train.
Out of curiosity, why were some panels implemented this way? Just technical limitations (of early panels?)? q
Cost vs effect. For panels with a light workload it doesn't add much value as the signaller has plenty of time to pull and reset the route without it affecting his workload.

SSI has essentially no cost involved in adding it so most that I'm aware of have it.

In the cast of most western region panels like Exeter Bristol and Cardiff, the panel is turn and push where the entrance "button" is turned and the exit pushed. With this kind of panel, the entrance "button" has to be replaced after each use anyway so TORR has no value.

Last edited: 16/08/2018 at 17:00 by jc92
Reason: None given

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 17:45 #111139
GeoffM
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jc92 in post 111134 said:
In the cast of most western region panels like Exeter Bristol and Cardiff, the panel is turn and push where the entrance "button" is turned and the exit pushed. With this kind of panel, the entrance "button" has to be replaced after each use anyway so TORR has no value.
Exeter (and Westbury) is NX, not turn push like most other Western powerboxes.

http://photos.signalling.org/picture?/5592/category/421-2007_set_2

SimSig Boss. Website issues: Check here first: https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=newwebsite
Last edited: 16/08/2018 at 17:51 by GeoffM
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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 16/08/2018 at 20:33 #111154
clive
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TylerE in post 111132 said:
vloris in post 111104 said:

On the real panel you also have to cancel all set routes after every train.
Out of curiosity, why were some panels implemented this way? Just technical limitations (of early panels?)?
Two main reasons. Firstly, the circuitry to do it adds cost to the interlocking. Secondly, and more important, there were serious concerns that a "bobbing" track circuit or some such fault could cause a route to be release prematurely, causing a SPAD or at least a "brown trouser moment". Eventually a circuit was designed that people were happy with. I believe London Bridge was the first major interlocking to have TORR.

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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 17/08/2018 at 21:13 #111184
Muzer
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That's what has confused me for a while - so what's the rule (in real life) when you have a non-TORR area? Should you always wait until the entire route has been used before cancelling the route or is it ok to do so as soon as the train is past the signal? If the former, does that include overlap or not?
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Routes not cancelling after passage of train 18/08/2018 at 08:58 #111197
kbarber
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Muzer in post 111184 said:
That's what has confused me for a while - so what's the rule (in real life) when you have a non-TORR area? Should you always wait until the entire route has been used before cancelling the route or is it ok to do so as soon as the train is past the signal? If the former, does that include overlap or not?
I think it's in the SGI (but might be Rule Book) that at routesetting panels, you may cancel the route as soon as the train has passed the signal (which means completely passed, not just the front end). In practice, it matters little if you cancel as soon as the signal returns to red, as all you do is initiate the approach locking which the train then clears anyway as it passes over the route, but it's still not proper.

At other than a routesetting panel (so, in Simsig, where there's implementations of lever frames or IFS panels), the rules are more complex. On passenger lines, the signal should be returned to danger (if it doesn't auto-return) or the route should be cancelled (if the signal has already returned to red) when the whole of the train has passed the signal, unless there are facing points int he route in which case you may put back after the train has passed over the facing points. On goods lines, you put back after the driving cab has passed the signal (or the facing points).

Hope that's useful.

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