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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 09:33 #112469
58050
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jc92 in post 112468 said:
58050 in post 112418 said:
Andrew G in post 112415 said:
A couple of observations:

When freight trains detach vehicles with the front portion continuing it might be better if the detach rear head code was the new working rather than waiting until the shunt loco attaches. For example 4L50 detaches vehicles at Ripple Lane which ultimately form 9L50 but only after the shunt loco attaches. This means you have two 4L50 for a period and you need to use F2 or F4 to find out route for the front portion.

5B02 forms a return working of 2B02 at Pitsea and is scheduled to use P4. This means 2B02 departs under a subsidiary signal. Using P3 would avoid the need for this.

Finally is it worth asking a moderator to move this thread into the LTS Timetable section of the forum?

Firstly with reagrds to the detached portion of the freight train 4L50. As I mentioned when this timetable was sent for moderator approval it isn't quite the finished article yet. Once some of the out-standing issues have been resolved & the Ripple Lane Freightliner & West Yard Pilot moves have been entered then the current arrangement with 4L50 will no doubt change.
Your second point regarding 5B02. I think you've got the TD wrong here. 5B02 is an ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 which acts as a standby unit in case of failure & is as per the WTT. The train you are referring to is 5B07 which originally was platformed into P2, but was usually delayed due to the train that runs in front of it. So it was changed to P4. I don't really see then sense in changing the platform jusy because of the subsiduary signal on departure because 2B07 forms a staff train & not a public passenger train, so the usual regualtions wouldn't really apply to 2B07 as the only people travelling on it are railway staff.
Definetely 5B02 forming 2B02. I've got it in sim in front of me now. I ran it in front of the class 2 rather than behind it.

Don't you mean 5B07? 5B02 enters around 05.40 & runs ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 & sits there as the stand by unit until after the morning peak before it returns to East Ham empty stock. I presume you are running without ARS which is fine for approx. another hour or 2 then forget it as you'll have 30+ trains on the panel & it gets pretty manic. I'm at 14.15 atm & it's fairly easy going apart from dealing with the freights.

Last edited: 05/10/2018 at 10:31 by 58050
Reason: typo crrection

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 12:56 #112475
chrisdmadd
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im not sure if im doing something wrong but i cant get 5B07 to get departure release from shoeburyness depot. Its stuck there now.

I also find it frustrating that the headcodes are duplicated for trains in the sim at the same time such as 5R03 would these have not had different headcodes?!

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 12:59 #112476
jc92
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chrisdmadd in post 112475 said:
im not sure if im doing something wrong but i cant get 5B07 to get departure release from shoeburyness depot. Its stuck there now.

I also find it frustrating that the headcodes are duplicated for trains in the sim at the same time such as 5R03 would these have not had different headcodes?!

Not in 1995. The line was still controlled by multiple boxes until 1996 so duplication wouldn't have been an issue.

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 13:01 #112477
chrisdmadd
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i see, just seems a bit odd. E.G. If 5B07 fails i would have thought its headcode would be enough to identify where it was!
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 13:02 #112478
58050
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Can't say I've ever had that problem with 5B07 as you describe, but why not re-load the sim at the nearest snapshot to when 5B07 enters & set the sim up for ARS to deal with it & see if that works.
With regards to the train headcodes they are all as per the WTT. That said I suppose I could alter the TDs so there aren't anymore duplicates certainly for the Cl.5s anyway. Will sort those out for the next release.

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 14:00 #112479
kbarber
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jc92 in post 112476 said:
chrisdmadd in post 112475 said:
im not sure if im doing something wrong but i cant get 5B07 to get departure release from shoeburyness depot. Its stuck there now.

I also find it frustrating that the headcodes are duplicated for trains in the sim at the same time such as 5R03 would these have not had different headcodes?!

Not in 1995. The line was still controlled by multiple boxes until 1996 so duplication wouldn't have been an issue.
Did they not still have the old four-number headcodes (unique to the LTS I think) until UR took over?

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 18:40 #112481
Phil-jmw
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258 posts
58050 in post 112469 said:
jc92 in post 112468 said:
58050 in post 112418 said:
Andrew G in post 112415 said:
A couple of observations:

When freight trains detach vehicles with the front portion continuing it might be better if the detach rear head code was the new working rather than waiting until the shunt loco attaches. For example 4L50 detaches vehicles at Ripple Lane which ultimately form 9L50 but only after the shunt loco attaches. This means you have two 4L50 for a period and you need to use F2 or F4 to find out route for the front portion.

5B02 forms a return working of 2B02 at Pitsea and is scheduled to use P4. This means 2B02 departs under a subsidiary signal. Using P3 would avoid the need for this.

Finally is it worth asking a moderator to move this thread into the LTS Timetable section of the forum?

Firstly with reagrds to the detached portion of the freight train 4L50. As I mentioned when this timetable was sent for moderator approval it isn't quite the finished article yet. Once some of the out-standing issues have been resolved & the Ripple Lane Freightliner & West Yard Pilot moves have been entered then the current arrangement with 4L50 will no doubt change.
Your second point regarding 5B02. I think you've got the TD wrong here. 5B02 is an ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 which acts as a standby unit in case of failure & is as per the WTT. The train you are referring to is 5B07 which originally was platformed into P2, but was usually delayed due to the train that runs in front of it. So it was changed to P4. I don't really see then sense in changing the platform jusy because of the subsiduary signal on departure because 2B07 forms a staff train & not a public passenger train, so the usual regualtions wouldn't really apply to 2B07 as the only people travelling on it are railway staff.
Definetely 5B02 forming 2B02. I've got it in sim in front of me now. I ran it in front of the class 2 rather than behind it.

Don't you mean 5B07? 5B02 enters around 05.40 & runs ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 & sits there as the stand by unit until after the morning peak before it returns to East Ham empty stock. I presume you are running without ARS which is fine for approx. another hour or 2 then forget it as you'll have 30+ trains on the panel & it gets pretty manic. I'm at 14.15 atm & it's fairly easy going apart from dealing with the freights.
I try and run with no ARS wherever possible Pascal. I'm only up to the small hours running V2.1, are you saying ARS is a must by breakfast time? If so I'll restart with ARS enabled before I go any further into the morning.

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 19:36 #112482
headshot119
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Did you save between the TD being interposed and the train never appearing?
"James Street, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool Central"
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 05/10/2018 at 20:38 #112483
58050
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2292 posts
Phil-jmw in post 112481 said:
58050 in post 112469 said:
jc92 in post 112468 said:
58050 in post 112418 said:
Andrew G in post 112415 said:
A couple of observations:

When freight trains detach vehicles with the front portion continuing it might be better if the detach rear head code was the new working rather than waiting until the shunt loco attaches. For example 4L50 detaches vehicles at Ripple Lane which ultimately form 9L50 but only after the shunt loco attaches. This means you have two 4L50 for a period and you need to use F2 or F4 to find out route for the front portion.

5B02 forms a return working of 2B02 at Pitsea and is scheduled to use P4. This means 2B02 departs under a subsidiary signal. Using P3 would avoid the need for this.
Well lets put it like this I'm now up yo 19.00 & around 18.30 I had 39 trains on the panel. Just be warned from around 04.45 things starthappening, but certainly by 06.30 there'll be 30+ trains on the sim. You might be able to manage, but so many trains have different calling pattern & Fenchurch Street is literally one in & one out on each of the 4 platforms it gets manic in no time. I'm sure you could switch to ARS without having to re-start so you could control one panel & let ARS manage the other panels. See how you go you'll soon realise when things start to get busy around 05.30ish with all the Cl.5 trains entering. Good luck anyway.

Finally is it worth asking a moderator to move this thread into the LTS Timetable section of the forum?

Firstly with reagrds to the detached portion of the freight train 4L50. As I mentioned when this timetable was sent for moderator approval it isn't quite the finished article yet. Once some of the out-standing issues have been resolved & the Ripple Lane Freightliner & West Yard Pilot moves have been entered then the current arrangement with 4L50 will no doubt change.
Your second point regarding 5B02. I think you've got the TD wrong here. 5B02 is an ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 which acts as a standby unit in case of failure & is as per the WTT. The train you are referring to is 5B07 which originally was platformed into P2, but was usually delayed due to the train that runs in front of it. So it was changed to P4. I don't really see then sense in changing the platform jusy because of the subsiduary signal on departure because 2B07 forms a staff train & not a public passenger train, so the usual regualtions wouldn't really apply to 2B07 as the only people travelling on it are railway staff.
Definetely 5B02 forming 2B02. I've got it in sim in front of me now. I ran it in front of the class 2 rather than behind it.

Don't you mean 5B07? 5B02 enters around 05.40 & runs ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 & sits there as the stand by unit until after the morning peak before it returns to East Ham empty stock. I presume you are running without ARS which is fine for approx. another hour or 2 then forget it as you'll have 30+ trains on the panel & it gets pretty manic. I'm at 14.15 atm & it's fairly easy going apart from dealing with the freights.
I try and run with no ARS wherever possible Pascal. I'm only up to the small hours running V2.1, are you saying ARS is a must by breakfast time? If so I'll restart with ARS enabled before I go any further into the morning.

Phil keep going as best you can, things start getting busy around 05.30. I know during the evening peak as I'm up to 19.00 I had 39 trains on the panel.

Last edited: 05/10/2018 at 20:40 by 58050
Reason: added text as original post text missing

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 06/10/2018 at 01:33 #112485
Phil-jmw
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258 posts
58050 in post 112483 said:
Phil-jmw in post 112481 said:
58050 in post 112469 said:
jc92 in post 112468 said:
58050 in post 112418 said:
Andrew G in post 112415 said:
A couple of observations:

When freight trains detach vehicles with the front portion continuing it might be better if the detach rear head code was the new working rather than waiting until the shunt loco attaches. For example 4L50 detaches vehicles at Ripple Lane which ultimately form 9L50 but only after the shunt loco attaches. This means you have two 4L50 for a period and you need to use F2 or F4 to find out route for the front portion.

5B02 forms a return working of 2B02 at Pitsea and is scheduled to use P4. This means 2B02 departs under a subsidiary signal. Using P3 would avoid the need for this.
Well lets put it like this I'm now up yo 19.00 & around 18.30 I had 39 trains on the panel. Just be warned from around 04.45 things starthappening, but certainly by 06.30 there'll be 30+ trains on the sim. You might be able to manage, but so many trains have different calling pattern & Fenchurch Street is literally one in & one out on each of the 4 platforms it gets manic in no time. I'm sure you could switch to ARS without having to re-start so you could control one panel & let ARS manage the other panels. See how you go you'll soon realise when things start to get busy around 05.30ish with all the Cl.5 trains entering. Good luck anyway.

Finally is it worth asking a moderator to move this thread into the LTS Timetable section of the forum?

Firstly with reagrds to the detached portion of the freight train 4L50. As I mentioned when this timetable was sent for moderator approval it isn't quite the finished article yet. Once some of the out-standing issues have been resolved & the Ripple Lane Freightliner & West Yard Pilot moves have been entered then the current arrangement with 4L50 will no doubt change.
Your second point regarding 5B02. I think you've got the TD wrong here. 5B02 is an ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 which acts as a standby unit in case of failure & is as per the WTT. The train you are referring to is 5B07 which originally was platformed into P2, but was usually delayed due to the train that runs in front of it. So it was changed to P4. I don't really see then sense in changing the platform jusy because of the subsiduary signal on departure because 2B07 forms a staff train & not a public passenger train, so the usual regualtions wouldn't really apply to 2B07 as the only people travelling on it are railway staff.
Definetely 5B02 forming 2B02. I've got it in sim in front of me now. I ran it in front of the class 2 rather than behind it.

Don't you mean 5B07? 5B02 enters around 05.40 & runs ECS from East Ham EMUD to Southend Central P1 & sits there as the stand by unit until after the morning peak before it returns to East Ham empty stock. I presume you are running without ARS which is fine for approx. another hour or 2 then forget it as you'll have 30+ trains on the panel & it gets pretty manic. I'm at 14.15 atm & it's fairly easy going apart from dealing with the freights.
I try and run with no ARS wherever possible Pascal. I'm only up to the small hours running V2.1, are you saying ARS is a must by breakfast time? If so I'll restart with ARS enabled before I go any further into the morning.

Phil keep going as best you can, things start getting busy around 05.30. I know during the evening peak as I'm up to 19.00 I had 39 trains on the panel.
Ok Pascal, I'll have a stab at it and see how I get on.

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 09:00 #112723
ajax103
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I've got a issue in which 5R03 has appeared twice at Shoeburyness CSD; the first one to appear was the 8 car Class 302 which was signalled into Platform 3 as booked now I have 5R03 forming the exact same service booked into the exact same platform but using 8 car Class 310 stock!

I've checked the timetable to see if there were any rules so if one appeared the other wouldn't but there doesn't seem to be any such rule.

Now I know about duplicating headcodes but when it's the same headcode, same location, forms same outbound service then something is wrong.

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 09:25 #112724
postal
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ajax103 in post 112723 said:
I've checked the timetable to see if there were any rules so if one appeared the other wouldn't but there doesn't seem to be any such rule.
Have you checked the decisions as well as the rules? Some TT writers now use decisions rather than rules for situations like forcing one of a selection of trains to enter.

"I drink to make other people seem more interesting." - George Jean Nathan, (14/02/1882 - 08/04/1958), American author, editor, and drama critic
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 09:54 #112725
ajax103
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postal in post 112724 said:
ajax103 in post 112723 said:
I've checked the timetable to see if there were any rules so if one appeared the other wouldn't but there doesn't seem to be any such rule.
Have you checked the decisions as well as the rules? Some TT writers now use decisions rather than rules for situations like forcing one of a selection of trains to enter.
The only decisions that I can see is preference for Class 302 and Class 305 to enter the sim if that helps?

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 10:44 #112726
58050
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I'll have a look in a bit, currently updating the Peterborough 1985-1986 timetable. But one thing I have noticed is that on occasions the tt data doesn't save even when you've told it to save & as a result if you look at each of the 5(one for each EMU class) I bet the Cl.302 appears twice whereas each of the 5 sets of 5R03 there should be 1 train for each of the EMU classes. This has happened on more than one occasion. You should see one schedule for Cl.302. Cl.305. Cl.308, Cl.310 & Cl.312. All you need to do is to replace the Cl.302 on one of them to the unit class that is missing.
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 22:02 #112735
postal
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58050 in post 112726 said:
I have noticed is that on occasions the tt data doesn't save even when you've told it to save
Pascal

Is it possible that you have saved the TT then closed down the sim without saving the game. If you do that then reload the saved game the data you have updated will not show because the sim uploads the TT that was in the sim when you last saved it, not the copy of the TT you have saved to the hard disk before you closed it? If you then save the TT from the reload, you have lost the edits for ever.

If you load a saved game and think that the TT has lost data you can check by closing the sim then starting a new game using the same TT. If the edits are in the new game but not the reloaded game, then the way that you have saved the TT and the game has got out of sync. If you want to continue with the saved game rather than starting again from scratch you have to re-do the edits.

"I drink to make other people seem more interesting." - George Jean Nathan, (14/02/1882 - 08/04/1958), American author, editor, and drama critic
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 18/10/2018 at 22:42 #112736
MarkC
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As I have always understood it when you save a game a copy of the TT is included in the save, any changes made to the in game timetable are included in the save and when you reload the save the changes are still there, even if you did not save the timetable seperatly.

If reloading a save game you don't acctually need the WTT in the timetable folder.

The attached save game has changes in it that I know are not in the offical 08/05/2015 release TT, I loaded the sim put in the changes, saved the game and then exited the sim and did not save the timetable, then I removed the timetables out of the timetable folder and loaded the save game and the changes I made are still there.

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It's not my fault! I was left unsupervised.
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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 19/10/2018 at 00:24 #112737
postal
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MarkC in post 112736 said:
As I have always understood it when you save a game a copy of the TT is included in the save, any changes made to the in game timetable are included in the save and when you reload the save the changes are still there, even if you did not save the timetable seperatly.

If reloading a save game you don't acctually need the WTT in the timetable folder.

The attached save game has changes in it that I know are not in the offical 08/05/2015 release TT, I loaded the sim put in the changes, saved the game and then exited the sim and did not save the timetable, then I removed the timetables out of the timetable folder and loaded the save game and the changes I made are still there.
Mark

That's the point; if you save the TT but then don't save the game, when you do re-start you are using a save from before the edit so the TT in sim is the unedited version. The edited version is only in the TT saved to disk. You can then only run with the edited TT by starting a new game from scratch. If you reload from your last saved game then save the TT, that overwrites the different TT on your disk and you have lost your edits. Unless you save both TT and game after any editing, the TT versions are out of sync.

That is what prompted this thread started less than a week ago.

"I drink to make other people seem more interesting." - George Jean Nathan, (14/02/1882 - 08/04/1958), American author, editor, and drama critic
Last edited: 19/10/2018 at 00:27 by postal
Reason: None given

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LTS 1994 - 1995 Timetable 20/10/2018 at 14:04 #112757
58050
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ajax103 in post 112723 said:
I've got a issue in which 5R03 has appeared twice at Shoeburyness CSD; the first one to appear was the 8 car Class 302 which was signalled into Platform 3 as booked now I have 5R03 forming the exact same service booked into the exact same platform but using 8 car Class 310 stock!

I've checked the timetable to see if there were any rules so if one appeared the other wouldn't but there doesn't seem to be any such rule.

Now I know about duplicating headcodes but when it's the same headcode, same location, forms same outbound service then something is wrong.

I've looked at the timetable & just as I suspected which has been a problem saving the timetable data & then discovering the tt data didn't save the reason 5R03 entered twice was because the 5R03 decision had 2 trains showing the Cl.302 option where in fact one of those trains should have read Cl.310. I've fixed it for V2.2 released, but all you have to do is go into F4, select the timetable tab & scroll all the way down to 5R03 which enters from Shoeburyness CSD & goes into P3 at 05.05. Select the first one & change the decision choice from Cl.302 to Cl.310. Then save the tt. You check the others as there should be 5 in total one for each type of unit. Two trains entered because the decision chose Cl.302 & because there were 2 of them the train entered twice. Had the decision on this occasion chosen another type of unit this issue wouldn't have shown itself, so thanks for that well spotted.

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