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Refreshing the in-sim timetable

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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 14/10/2018 at 09:35 #112617
postal
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From time to time there are questions raised on the Forum about timetable data disappearing. Investigation normally shows that this is due to the saved version of the TT and the TT version held in a saved game getting out of sync.

Would it be possible (and would it be a sensible idea) to allow a refresh of a TT when a saved game is loaded. By that I mean that the user would have the option to over-write the TT date held in the saved game by the TT data held by the saved TT copy on the hard disk. There are practical issues to be worked through as there would need to be some mechanism to carry over any rules or decisions that had been applied in the saved game and also tick off those trains which had already entered. I guess it is also a niche product as only those who write or modify TTs would make use of it but is it something that it might be worthwhile to investigate and implement if there are no insuperable obstacles?

"Early to rise and early to bed make a man healthy, wealthy and dead." - James Thurber (08/12/1894 - 02/11/1961), American writer and cartoonist,
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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 14/10/2018 at 13:52 #112621
KymriskaDraken
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It would be a great help when testing some of the more complex timetables so we wouldn't have to restart from midnight if there were edits made.

Another similar idea could be adjusting the Merge timetable command so it would ask what to do with duplicate trains - add them (as it does now so you get two instances of the train), keep existing or replace existing.


Kev

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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 14/10/2018 at 16:37 #112623
postal
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KymriskaDraken in post 112621 said:
Another similar idea could be adjusting the Merge timetable command so it would ask what to do with duplicate trains - add them (as it does now so you get two instances of the train), keep existing or replace existing.
Lot of decisions and clicking if you have a TT with over 1000 trains as they will nearly all be duplicated in the existing and edited TTs!

Building on the good idea there seem to be 4 scenarios. A train TT has a TD/UID TT in the existing TT but not the edit, the same train TT exists in both existing TT and edit, the same TD/UID can be found in both existing and edited TT but the train TTs are different and a train TT has a TD/UID in the edit but not the existing TT. If the identical TD/UID/TT can be found in both existing and edited TTs, then no action would be required so the code could skip over those and require no user input. That would hopefully get rid of nearly all of the work as most of the time the edited and existing TTs don't vary by that much.

The other scenarios each have their own set of decisions to be made. If the train is in the existing TT but not the edit, delete or retain. If the train is there but the TTs are different, retain or over-write. If the train is in the edited TT but not the existing TT, merge or ignore.

Then the same process would have to apply to rules and decisions.

However, the idea of merging the TTs would take away the need to check back for rules and decisions already applied and trains already entered as the existing TT into which we are merging will already have that information.

"Early to rise and early to bed make a man healthy, wealthy and dead." - James Thurber (08/12/1894 - 02/11/1961), American writer and cartoonist,
Last edited: 14/10/2018 at 16:38 by postal
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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 14/10/2018 at 17:40 #112624
KymriskaDraken
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Yes, pretty much the line I was thinking along. As you say the vast majority of trains wouldn't need any user input, only the ones where there is a difference.

Kev

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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 15/10/2018 at 10:26 #112640
postal
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So at the end of it all, what would be really good and would answer my original question would be an enhancement of the Merge Timetable function to give some control over what is merged into the existing timetable.

I'll add it to the Mantis wish list so we can live in hope!

"Early to rise and early to bed make a man healthy, wealthy and dead." - James Thurber (08/12/1894 - 02/11/1961), American writer and cartoonist,
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The following user said thank you: KymriskaDraken
Refreshing the in-sim timetable 15/10/2018 at 17:46 #112650
JamesN
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I think this is just the tip of the iceberg - and while your solution would fix this problem postal, it's just another complication atop an already occasionally unwieldy system.

I'd propose something more radical - which would solve another issue raised recently as well - split the simulation and the timetable altogether.

I've got a lot of thoughts on the matter that are outwith the scope of this discussion, but in the context of this thread - all the timetable writer would need to is release an updated timetable. When you next load your saved game and it "reconnects" to the timetable all the changes are already there. You handle edits in sim as a kind of overlay - just a record of amendments applicable to that saved game.

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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 15/10/2018 at 18:04 #112651
postal
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JamesN in post 112650 said:
I think this is just the tip of the iceberg - and while your solution would fix this problem postal, it's just another complication atop an already occasionally unwieldy system.

I'd propose something more radical - which would solve another issue raised recently as well - split the simulation and the timetable altogether.
Indeed so, but I wouldn't mind a quick fix while more radical work was taking place in the background.

"Early to rise and early to bed make a man healthy, wealthy and dead." - James Thurber (08/12/1894 - 02/11/1961), American writer and cartoonist,
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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 10/03/2019 at 09:47 #116303
postal
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The Mantis report has been closed with no further action. There was no update as to whether it was technically infeasible or technically feasible but not a priority issue.
"Early to rise and early to bed make a man healthy, wealthy and dead." - James Thurber (08/12/1894 - 02/11/1961), American writer and cartoonist,
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Refreshing the in-sim timetable 11/03/2019 at 12:59 #116315
VInce
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KymriskaDraken in post 112621 said:
It would be a great help when testing some of the more complex timetables so we wouldn't have to restart from midnight if there were edits made.

Another similar idea could be adjusting the Merge timetable command so it would ask what to do with duplicate trains - add them (as it does now so you get two instances of the train), keep existing or replace existing.


Kev
Fully support your point of view Kev. I'm currently self-testing a major update on a 1980s Exeter timetable with over 800 trains and 100-odd decisions and options and nearly 300 rules and I'm forever stopping, making corrections and amendments and restarting from the beginning again. I estimate it would halve the testing time - for instance, this time I've kept a log on my test time on just one day of this five day timetable and I'm at over 80 hours so far with another four days of timetable to test. That figure ignores the data inputting time before the testing takes place which was at least two months worth of my free time.

I can see though, how implementing such a facility would be a very big and complex job indeed.

Can't really see it happening, unfortunately.

Regards

Vince

Last edited: 11/03/2019 at 13:02 by VInce
Reason: None given

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